Gabriele TAMI talks about Buttrio, Bordeaux and his winery - S04E03

. [00:00:00] And here we are in the Tasting Academy of Colli Orientali del Friuli here with Gabriele, Tami Gabriel. Fine. Thank you. And you. Okay. So, uh, yeah, just gotta keep the, uh, the gears in English here. Yeah. We've been speaking Italian for the last 15 minutes and now we've decided to do this episode in English. Thank you very much for spending some time with us here at the Taverna.

, Gabriel, you are basically the, Second, third generation winemaker. Um, fifth, I can say fifth. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Maybe more. We don't know. maybe. Well, you have some children, so. Yeah. Yeah. We will see. We'll see. But we don't know how many generations back. Yeah, you go . Yeah. So tell me a little bit, you have your, your obviously your, uh, your winery is located in Buttrio.

Yeah. Right. And it's called TAMI. Yeah. [00:01:00] T a m i. So tell us a little bit about, , what, what your, about the azienda about, about where you're making wine. , , and how big it is and all of that sort of thing, just so that people are listening, have an idea of where we're coming from. Yeah. Um, our, um, little winery is about six hectares.

Mm-hmm. of land, uh, of wine and plus a little bit of land, but we are focused on that. So six sector is not, um, is in the average, I think in the, of the little wineries here in Friuli, is that more of, more less than average? Yeah, yeah. Is the average of a family, uh, family winery and, um, generation by generation?

We have, uh, uh, change the, the winemakers in our, in our family. Um, but um, every time we have focused, uh, two things, uh, we have been a manager of being of big, um, [00:02:00] uh, wineries. Okay. Uh, for five generations. Okay. Um, I'm the fifth. I'm not a manager. I'm a winemaker in a, in a big winery. So. So you studied enology?

Enology, yeah. Okay. And so the, the winery has been for many, many times, um, I can say, um, parallel to Okay. To our, um, to our job. Okay. Okay. In the, so, so going back generations, you've always been. managing another larger winery. Yeah. While at the same time. Yeah. Running your own small family winery. Okay.

Exactly. Is that difficult, um, for the time that you need, uh, also to, to, to live? Uh, for sure. , uh, at the end is for some reason is easy, is easier because, uh, you can, sometimes the problems of the little wineries is [00:03:00] that, um, you don't know enough things or you don't know the things, um, um, pretty quickly when the, when the word is changing.

Okay. Ah, okay. So be in two position is perfect. Okay. Ah-ha. If you're in a big winery, you can look at how the, the wine world is changing. I never thought about that. At the same time, working in a little, little winery, you can have an approach really direct to all the quality problems. . Okay. And so maybe this is something that is really interesting and that I have used in my work as a winemaker, What is changing in the world, the new things that you need to do and to know is what I maybe look in the winery where I work. Okay. So having this, this sort of bigger experience and a bigger winery maybe that has some more money to spend, um, who maybe they're looking to, [00:04:00] uh, find the latest technology Yeah.

You know, to make things more efficient, to, you know, improve quality. You are, you have the time and the exposure to see all of that and bring some of that Yeah. Also. Yeah. And also, especially if you are in, um, in, in the high level quality part of the wines, it's really important to, to, to have a continuous exchange with other people coming from all over the world.

Because at the end, making wine is a sort of, um, mode. . Okay. Fashion. It's a fashion. Yeah. It's modern fashion. Fashion is changing. Fashion is changing really quickly. You need to be, uh, really fast and understand what the, what the wine world want have. Okay. And the, the taste of the wine. Also, if we are on the same land with the same variety, it's changing [00:05:00] minimum every three, four years.

Okay. Uh, and it's really important to be on the stage. Gotcha. So can you give me an example of when that's happened? Maybe for you? So maybe when you, because you also work for a larger winery. Yeah. Okay. So have you ever found yourself at the larger winery? And said, oh wow, I really see that this trend or this taste is changing.

And you've brought that information home and changed something at home too. Yes. Has that ever happened to you? More, uh, is something that I have bring from the big winery is more, uh, um, the approach to the people. Approach the people. He approach the people. Okay. Explain that to me. I'm not the guy that, uh, have been only in Friuli for all, all his life is, thank goodness I had a beginning experience around the world.

But at the end, if you stay in Friuli 90% of your life, sometimes it's difficult to understand, [00:06:00] uh, how to approach to, to a possible customer. Ah, so you're talking about the, the, the people who come to the winery Yeah. Understand what, what the, what the people want to have also. So not that, not the people who are working with you.

You're talking about the people who are coming to you to coming Yeah. To try and buy. Yeah. Okay. . Um, this is really important because if you don't have people that are coming, um, really often in your winery and in a small winery is not easy to have big exchange with people from all over the world. Oh, okay.

Normally little winery is, uh, or they are really famous or you normally you sell the big amount of the, the, the, the wine to the locals or local people. Yeah. Or maybe to the people from Veneto or or or from the nearest cities. Yeah, exactly. Or from from Austria. If you're freely somebody coming down as a tourist.

Yeah. So be ready to understand, uh, how the, the wine world is changing is, [00:07:00] um, something that it's impossible to do with the locals. Okay. For sure. Okay. Um, I can say that in, if we look to the other part of the, uh, of the thing, um, the big winery sometimes is difficult to, in the big winery is difficult to make.

Um, uh, I I can say test test, okay. For a new product, okay. Is quite difficult to do. How? Why? Because you are focused on the production. You cannot move from the wine that you are selling already to a big quantity of people. Mm-hmm. or, uh, the wine that you are making, you are making it, uh, since a lot of time and, uh, the people are recognizing this wine as a benchmark, I can say.

Okay, so when you wanna move something, or [00:08:00] change something. Or change something, you should be sure of what you are doing. Okay. So it's kind of light what, what we would say in English is maybe, I don't know, this just popped into my head. Smaller wineries can be a little bit lighter on their feet. Yeah. So they can move a little bit more quickly Yeah.

To sort of adapt. Yeah. Also, because sometimes they know the big part of the, the customer directly, so they can, they can explain, uh, to them directly what's happening that, uh, vintage or, uh, your mistake or the mistake of the natural of that vintage. Okay. In a big winery that is selling wine around the world, uh, this is more difficult.

So it's a more a direct feedback. Yeah. From, from your customers. Yeah. The message that you send with a bottle, sometimes it'll arrive in New York, uh, that it can be completely different. It's true. That's true. It's true. Yeah. So I mean, I guess if, if you are a large producer, producer and you're having a really [00:09:00] huge success with a certain type of wine, but there is something that you wanna change about it, you have to be careful because a small change could be a big effect on sales.

Yeah. Yeah. So whereas a smaller winery, you know, you make a little change and then all of a sudden the people who come back to you say, Hey, I don't really like what you did to them are low. And you go, okay, we'll go back next year to the way you like it. So, yeah. So it's a more direct feedback. Going back a little bit to, you know, a little bit of your history, you said you've traveled around the world.

Yeah. Where have you worked before or where have you worked while you were learning training? Have you traveled? I've made the, the university in Udine and I will start with the, with the, as an intern in some wineries here in the region. Uh, just. to try, uh, something different from what I was doing with my father at home.

Of course. And this was the, the first, um, the first step to, to understand what's outside. Mm-hmm. . I was like [00:10:00] 19, 28 years old. Okay. Okay. How long ago was how old are you now? I'm 35. 35? Yeah. So like 16, 17 you? 16. 16 years ago. Okay. And that, that was the first point. Really, really interesting. Absolutely. So getting out of just home base?

Yeah. Yeah. And getting out of university. Okay. Because university is uh, uh, absolutely. fantastic for winemaker, Uhhuh, University are, nu, especially for winemaking, I can say it's, yeah, they're quite good. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Um, so, but the theory is something that in wine is not enough. Okay. Okay. Wine needs a lot of practice, right?

Yeah. A lot of nose, a lot of mouth, a lot of hands mm-hmm. and so absolutely necessary to go out. And so doing that and during university was fantastic for me. Okay. Especially because the, the, the winery is where I work. Uh, they were really, really nice winery. Okay. I can say Vie di Romans, uh, [00:11:00] as a, as a, as a not dad.

Yeah. As a, as a tank for all the people that I've met in that period. But, uh, right, that was the first, uh, step. Really. A lot of people stage at Via di Romans, normally one to a year, but because I think a Lara Scarbolo also staged at Via di Romans, if I remember correctly. From, uh, Scarbolo below down in . So I think she was, yeah, I know quite a few people who've done that.

I think also a lot of people are happy to, to, to say that. Yes, yes. It's kind of like saying you worked in a Michelin star restaurant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, oh yeah. I was a, you know, I was a chef's assistant at, uh, you know, uh, 

Le Calandre. So, um, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's an important thing. But have you, did you travel outside of Italy as well? Yeah. Af after that, um, I have done the Erasmus program, then university in Burgundy last year of university. I've done it, uh, twice. Nice. Uh, Burgundy, I've to understand what's France that is, that's not an easy fact.[00:12:00] 

Burgundy's really complicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so university in Burgundy was really nice, but. At the end, as you said, uh, burgundy is really complicated and, uh, I have changed after university, I start working in Bordeaux for Okay. For two years because, um, start working in Burgundy. It was really difficult for me.

Okay. My French was not enough Good. Ah, uh, are they difficult with the language in France? In the cellar? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, not in France. In some region of France, in some region. Okay. In some region of France. In Burgundy. In Burgundy, maybe for some, maybe in champagne also. Yeah. French or nothing. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And my French was enough to, to have good notes at university, but not, uh, to make wine in a, in a, in a winery. In Beaune or in Okay, so you or in, so you didn't actually work in a winery in, in Burgundy No, no. But you did work in a winery in [00:13:00] Bordeaux. Yeah. For, for two years. For two years, yeah. Two winery. So what was the sort of.

Was there like a big revelation or a big something really important that you learned working in Bordeaux, that you brought back home? Something you were like, wow, you know, this is really important, or this is really interesting, I'm gonna bring this knowledge home and apply it to my wines. But I think the, the approach not, um, not something technical.

I don't know a perfect, uh, thing that I want to do also at home. No. A technical thing, precise that I want to do at home the same. No, no. I don't think that the, the, the important thing is the approach to be the best. To be the best as you can, the best that the market will recognize you. Mm-hmm. not the best that I like and, uh, , your wine should be not, uh, easy to copy.

Ah-ha. To remake it in another place in the world. [00:14:00] Okay. Uh, so not good because good is, uh, something that changed from person to person, but, uh, um, okay. Not, uh, not vinegar for sure. Okay. Uh, but good for, um, something that is recognizable, that is arriving from that terroir, from that winery. So making a unique product Yeah.

Is, is almost more important than making a great product. Yeah. Yeah. Putting a signature. the same signature, each vintage on each winery of the same, uh, winery. Okay. So how did they do that in, in Burgundy, in Bordeaux? What was, what was the secrets that they used to the secret, uh, as they said, little bit of, little bit of wine from Sicily?

Yeah, it could, could be. It could be, could be. No, I'm teasing. No, I, um, at the end is, um, when I was saying before some something that you change in a big label could be a big, um, a big [00:15:00] mistake also if you're doing well. Okay. Um, they are doing the same things, uh, I don't know, 100 years. Okay. Same vineyard that are doing the same cuvee same wood from the same cooperage, uh, um, same way of thinking of doing, of moving.

So, so, Um, can I say dogma in English? Yeah, you can say dogma. Sure, sure. Yeah. Sometimes the decision are, uh, dogma are kind of almost Okay. Kind of. So it's always done that way. Yeah. Uh, it works that people are happy. Okay. We should continue that way. Okay. Another thing I have met, uh, a few people, um, two winemakers, particularly with, uh, a tasting, uh, um, an ability tasting that have never met, uh, another time in my life.

Ah, [00:16:00] so with a tasting ability? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So tell me about that. What do you mean? So we had, um, we had the first winery where, where I was working Chateau Cantenac. , um, that is quite famous, but not the big ones. Yeah, it's not the big ones. Not Petrus, but, but I, if you know Bordeaux, you've heard of Cantenac. Okay.

Yeah. Is it a first growth? Is it a No, no. No. It's a, it is a Saint Emilion Grand Cru. Okay. And, uh, because there is also another Cantenac, but this Brane Cantenac, what? You, ah, maybe that's what I'm thinking of. But anyway, go on. Sorry. And, uh, we had, um, a consultant, really famous, really, really famous. Can you say the name?

Uh, Jacques Boissenot. Okay. And, uh, that was coming in a winery as a normal guy. Not the, not the guy that is consulting 400 wineries in, in Bordeaux. Okay. Normal guy. Okay. 70 years old at the time, [00:17:00] um, with this lady. Okay. In the car, the lady was, uh, reading the newspaper or uh, a book. Okay. Pink book. And she would stay in the car.

Yeah, absolutely. Whoa. Okay. And he was coming, uh, in the cellar. Uh, he was remembering the names of all the workers of the cellar every time. Wow. That's important. He was asking me, uh, about Udinese championship. Uh, I was, I was going and in, uh, piece of paper that was in the, how do you call the, the jacket shirt pocket.

The shirt pocket or the jacket pocket? Yeah, the jack pocket. He had a piece of paper, so like 10 square centimeter, and he was able to write all the tasting notes of all the winery. Wow. Tiny, small, with some codes, with some symbols. And so at the end of, I don't know, 50, 60, 70 wines on the table, it was [00:18:00] able to imagine the perfect blend.

Wow. And that's something that I have never looked before. Never, it never happened at that step, at that, uh, high level. I have never seen it in my life. Okay. Maybe there, maybe there are some for sure. Okay. But I have never had the, say the same, uh, occasion to work with, uh, a so talented taste there. Wow. And so when he said, this is the blend, that was it?

Yeah, it was, there was no debate? No, no. Because it was a really, um, interesting person. Not, um, also not dogmatic . Absolutely. Okay. Um, it was, uh, proposing the blends for the first wine, the second wine, the ve special, uh, there was also a for, for the woman because the owner was a woman. Uhhuh . Okay. Um, and so all the family there was, there was a, in the, in, in the, in the tasting room, there was the [00:19:00] winemaker.

That was the son of the, of the owner. Mm-hmm. the owner, the other son that was the commercial one. . Um, and, uh, I can say the, the, the work, the first worker of the, of the winery. And so all of them were saying something about one of the wines. Okay. Uh, the commercial one for the , the, the vin du Chateau was decided more by the winemaker.

Mm-hmm. and obviously the wine for the ladies for, um, by the owner. By the owner of course. And, uh, all of them were giving to the consultant, the signature of the family. . Okay. So they were making, um, Um, um, they, they not, not a critical, they were, they were giving their opinion. Their opinion, yeah. On the, on the wine where that, that they were in charge of, I can say.

Oh, okay. So they were talking about the [00:20:00] wines that they was sort of their specialty. And I have understand that this was the, the signature of the family. Okay. And it, it was important, I can say as much as the, as the blend made by the, by the winemaker. Okay. By the consultant. So, um, sometimes the family was happy.

sometimes the family was asking for some, um, I can say from some, some changing. Okay. And so this, um, uh, this mismatch, this, um, argument mm-hmm. was, uh, necessary to give the signature of the winery by the family. Okay. Okay. And it was not something, uh, it was something really, really interesting. Mm-hmm. . Yes.

Okay. But, but in, in the end, they managed to come together. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Interesting. But all this thing happened in, I dunno, half an hour, all [00:21:00] while the, the consultant's wife read her book in the car. Yeah. . Yeah. Wow. Uh, fantastic. Wow. So af after that, after that, um, lunch in the city, center of Saint Emilion with the wife.

Mm-hmm. , and then, uh, and off to wherever he was going next. Wow. So fantastic. Uh, life. Yeah. And, um, a few years ago, uh, Jacques Boissenot, died. Oh. And it was, uh, harvest 2014. I remember I was, uh, working here in Friuli, and the call from Bordeaux arrives me, and I have cried as my grandfather was a no. Yeah. So you were very close.

This guy had a big effect on you. Yeah. Yeah. I've not passed so much time with him, Uhhuh, but, uh, quality time. Okay. So he really made a mark on you? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Very good. That's, that's wonderful. So you finish in Bordeaux? Yeah. And you come back home? [00:22:00] I come back directly to, to New Zealand.

Ah, so you went from Bordeaux to New Zealand? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. The, the voyage goes on. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about New Zealand. I've always dream. of making wine in New Zealand. I was gonna go, but somebody pulled the rug out from under me. But anyway, that's another story for another episode. But, um, tell me about that.

How did you manage that job? Um, this, this is the, the, the important thing because, uh, I was working in Bordeaux, I make the application to, to Tok, to New Zealand. I have a send, I think a thousand of emails. A thousand? Yeah. Literally a thousand. Yeah. Yeah. More than 500 for sure. Okay. Wow. Uh, because there is a website, wine, uh, dot and zed.com.

You have the list of all the, uh, emails of all the wineries, and you just, you just blasted 'em. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So I think I have sent like, uh, from a, [00:23:00] to. I think k . Okay. After K, your fingers came. K was midnight and then, uh, I get home. Okay. I had a, a big quantity of, uh, of, uh, respond. That's good. And a few of them were really interesting.

And so one of them, um, called, uh, in, has write an email to my boss in, uh, in Saint Emilion. Oh, okay. Okay. Um, first question, do you imagine that this guy can manage a, a huge winery of 300,000, uh, hecto liters, 300,000 hectoliters respond? Yes, for sure. Yes, for sure. Yeah. Copy on my email. CCN on my email. Okay.

Okay. Uh said you are crazy. I was 22. I was working in little wine quality wineries. Right. How big was, [00:24:00] um, was Cantenac 3000 hectoliters. So a hundred times times bigger. Yeah. So 3,300,000 hecto liters. What would that be? In bottles? 3 million bottles. 4 million bottles? No, 10 times more. 10 times more.

Yeah. 40 million bottles. Yeah. Holy shit. Okay. So, wow. I've said that to my boss. What are you doing? What are you saying to, to this guy? Oh, it's better if you make a mistake. It's better to do it 27,000 kilometers from your home than in Friuli. That's true. That's true. Cuz that is where you can get on a plane and get the hell out.

Yeah. And after, if you are, uh, if you are able to do that, uh, you will be sure that for your, all your life you will know that, um, you will be able to do that. Okay. And for you, this will be really important. So the, you're giving you the confidence. Yes. Giving you the confidence to, to, to tackle whatever winery, whether it's 4,000 bottles or 40 million [00:25:00] bottles. So, so that was a big deal for you? Yeah, absolutely. And you managed to do that? Yeah. Is that where you went to work? Yeah, but um, I arrived there and the winemaker was there.

Okay. Okay. That was a test, but a good test. After a few weeks, I started the harvest. So two, um,

22 shifts. Two shifts of two shifts of uh, 12 hours. Whoa. Okay. The wine ma, the senior winemaker was managing the 12 hours and during the day, seven, seven and seven seven during the night, I was working with the team that was coming from all over the world. Okay. So New Zealand team was working seven, seven.

with the winemaker, the chief winemaker. Okay. And I was working with 25 people coming from all over the world, winemakers or next to be winemakers, for example, from Chila, from France, from Argentina, from, uh, , uh, never met [00:26:00] before. Right. Uh, from California, from, um, one was from Texas, from Canada. Wow. So from all over the place.

Yeah. Okay. And at the end of, and you had to manage all these guys. Yeah. But at the end, uh, what I was, I was the person that was speaking the language of all the other people, English. English, French, Italian. Ah, okay. There you go. Because obviously your English is very good. Yeah. French from your experience in Bordeaux and Italian, obviously your mother tongue.

Yeah. So you were able to communicate with everyone. Yeah. And uh, at the end, the, the chief should be the, the guy from Motta di Levenza that was really nice guy in, in wine making. Really, really nice. What do you mean by really nice? It was able to, to do absolutely more than what, what I was. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he was more qualified than you?

Yeah. But he was speaking just Italian and a little bit of English. Ah-huh. [00:27:00] not more qualified, more able. Okay. He was at the, at the first experience, also him, but he was really, really on, on the stage, I can say. Okay. Take note. People who are listening, how important it is to be able to communicate in different languages.

You know, the fact that you were able to communicate and. Two more languages than this guy. Basically put you in a better position To be a leader. Yeah. To be the, the manager. So if you're listening and you're thinking about going into wine and winemaking, start learning new languages, man. Because it's important because in the world, the economic world, the English is everywhere, right?

Maybe also Chinese in the future, uh, but with English, more or less, you can do all you want. Mm-hmm. . And why making word? If you go in French and you don't know French, Could be difficult. Yeah. Like you said, it was in French, in Italy it is not so difficult as in France. [00:28:00] But uh, at the end for working in a winery, you should know a little bit of Italian in Spain.

Well, that was what happened to me. I mean, I came here and I didn't know any words as far as the cantina was concerned. I knew how to say, you know, how much does a beer cost in Italian? I was, or where's the bathroom? But you know, in a week or two you pick up, you know, maybe not all the grammar, but you understand if somebody tells you to bring that pump and move that tank from that tank, you can understand that.

Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a skill. It's something that, you know, people I think underestimate in a world like wine that why do you need to learn languages to work in a winery? Well, there's your evidence that you should, and Spanish is another, another language, really America important for, for, uh, for wine making.

Absolutely, really important. Spain, south America. Yeah, it's a, it's a big, big deal. Yeah, for sure. So, so how long did you stay in New Zealand? Um, a little bit more than six months. Okay. Just for the, so just the harvest? Yeah. I, and then I have, uh, I've quit the job because it was impossible to work, to [00:29:00] leave there.

What? They, they pay me really good. Okay. Really good. Okay. Uh, more than what I am paid, uh, maybe now. Okay. After 10 years of 40 million bottles for God's sake. Um, but, but in generally, the, the, the, the salary in, uh, in New Zealand is really good. Okay. If you look at how much cost of life there and, uh, uh, how, how much money they give you, it's really good.

Okay. And if you have a good position from the basic worker, this changed a. . Mm-hmm. . Okay. It's not like 20% more or 40%. It is like double or three times. Oh, okay. So there's a big difference between like a basic worker and someone who was in your position. Yeah. At that time it was like that. Okay. And, um, at the end, the life was not, was like in hi, more or less.

Okay. I don't know, nowadays. So what did you find impossible about life in New Zealand? Oh, there was no one for 40 kilometers from, from the winery to the next city. And the next city was like, [00:30:00] uh, Buttrio. Okay. So it was, it was kinda like Lauzacco where I was almost, almost wasn't quite 40 kilometers, but at least we had Udine.

And the first city was, was Wellington at four hour, five hours by, by car. Wow. So didn't, didn't like that 2020 isolation, 22 years. This was not, uh, no. Yeah. You don't want to do that. No. Yeah. So you came back home? I came back home. I came back directly to Bordeaux for working another winery there the second year in Bordeaux.

Okay. So, uh, another winery, little bit bigger. Okay. Little bit more famous. So is your dad like on the phone with you saying, when are you coming back? You got a winery run? Exactly. Exactly. And uh, but at the same time it was really happy about my experience, of course. And, um, I have, uh, and it, it was the last year that I was out because my dad was 69 that year.

Mm-hmm. [00:31:00] And in, um, at Christmas, I, I came back. Yeah. And, uh, he said, in May I will be 70. , uh, or you come back or I should, uh, sell the, the winery. Oh, that's an ultimatum, because I I'm too old to to, to go ahead. To keep going on. Yeah. To keep going on. Yeah. He wanted to retire, man. He's been 70 years old. Yeah. Yeah.

And so then I've decided to come back to Friuli, uh, fund a good job in a, in a good little winery. Okay. Uh, that was not, uh, so a again, you came back and you were working in another winery. Yeah. But as well as running your own. Yeah. But small and, um, not, not so big. Uh, not, not so bigger than, than, than mine.

Okay. And really with a huge, uh, focus on quality. Okay. So this was another, . I can say another step, really important of my career. Okay. Three years there looking for, uh, wonderful white wines. Mm-hmm. [00:32:00] with a, with a consultant, really, uh, one of the best winemakers at w that I've ever, ever met.

Mm-hmm. , it was another really important thing for me. Okay. Three. As their, every, every time you move, you should, uh, change your mind. You should, uh, adapt your position to the position that you find is something that, um, um, helps you to keep the, your, your, your head. Uh, switch on. Okay. Keep, keep your brain turned on.

Yeah. Keep your mind open as well. Yeah. Because sometimes we, we switch off, uh, our brain, uh, we, we move as a dogma, but with, uh, with the switch off on the, on the head. So you're just doing everything sort of by habit? Yeah. Okay. Not dog ma habit. Yeah. My habit. And then, but then, because dogma you are sure of the result.

Exactly. Exactly. But uh, yeah, working in a moving [00:33:00] around, there's always, you always have to sort of reset yourself and open your mind to do things in a different way. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I think, uh, till the thirties, uh, it's really important to do that. Yeah. So until you're in your thirties, basically, you were saying.

Yeah. Yeah. So spend your twentie. Yeah, moving, traveling experiences. Okay. Yeah, I think that's really good. Good advice. Yeah. I think too many, too many people, and, and I'm not just talking about Friuli, I'm talking about California or you know, Tuscany or whatever it is. They grow up in the family. They do what their dad did.

They, you know, sort of, they're sort of in this tunnel of just doing that way and maybe they go away for a few months after university or whatever, but then they always come back. You know, the parents are like, okay, you're here now, so you have to do it this way. And they'll say, well, what about this? And they'll go, eh, well maybe next year , you know, but then you're always sort of just doing the same thing over and over again.

But this constant sort of change in renewal and keeping your mind elastic and, and I think [00:34:00] is really important. Great, great, great advice for people who are, who are listening, whoever. Yeah. Then a thing that is, um, not easy in our job is that, uh, the big part of the wine making world. Uh, is concentrating the efforts in two months in, uh, September and October.

Okay. So you cannot move, uh, in other places, uh, to make, um, uh, other vintages instead of going in places really, really far. So, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, South Africa, or Chile. Mm-hmm. . So another hemisphere is, is the reason why I have never been to, to us for a, for a harvest. Oh, okay. Because, okay.

You have to decide. Harvest in Bordeaux, harvest in Napa. Okay. Uh, it's tough choice, but at least Bordeaux you can come home. Yeah. But, but, but also I'm more, uh, [00:35:00] as, as I am, uh, I am more for Old World wine making. Okay. Than New World wine making. So after maybe you decide to, to stay here, then. Then, then go to Napa.

Okay. Maybe, maybe for that, for that reason, it was better to change and to go to Napa to change my mind. Okay. Yeah. But you went to New Zealand, which is New World, so Yeah. Yeah. But it's, and very big. I, I think it's totally different from Napa, I'm sure New Zealand, uh, way of thinking. This more near the way of thinking of Friuli, New New Zealand is a big, Friuli New Zealand is a big Friuli Yeah, I love that quote.

Yeah. Also, New Zealand is a big Friuli. Why do you say that's ing It's raining every time. raining all the time. Okay, so it's gloomy. Yeah. Good. So good. Sauvignon good. Okay. All right. And, uh, at the end, the people are, uh, all farmers. Okay. All farmers. [00:36:00] Because, except in the, in the two cities. . Uh, the other two millions people that are in this, uh, in these two islands are, uh, all farmers.

Okay. Timber, uh, cattle. Um, sheep. Sheep, exactly. Sheep. 60 million of sheep. Exactly. More than people, right? Yeah. Yeah. 4 million people. 4 million people. 60 million sheep. Yeah. And 20 millions deer. And 20 million deer. Yeah. Wow. Okay. And the biggest piece of land, uh, of sauvignon in the world nowadays. Really?

Yeah. So the, so you mean the largest single vineyard of Sauvignon, or the largest No, the, the largest surface by nation. Okay. Ah, of course in the world. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, bigger than France, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. And in 1985, uh, they were more or less not making wine. Okay. Something incredible what they have done in New Zealand.

And, uh, so. farmers really near to the culture [00:37:00] of, uh, Friulian, uh, Friulian people. Okay. For, for a lot of things. Also, um, there are a lot of also, uh, immigrated from, um, Istria, Dalmatia and Really Yeah. A lot, especially north, uh, to, uh, Wellington. Okay. In the, in the islands there are a lot of people doing wine from Istria.

Yeah. Since that time with the variety that are coming from here. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. So, so when we talk about New Zealand and Sauvignon, cuz one of the things I used to always say when I was teaching classes or giving tastings here in Friuli, I would always say that there are like three places in the world where Sauvignon Blanc, does its best.

France, obviously where it was born, Sancerre, whatever you want to say. Um, New Zealand, which is sort of a new way of thinking about Sauvignon and Friuli. . So how would you, having worked in France, having worked [00:38:00] in New Zealand and having your experience in Friuli, how would you, so first of all, would you say that that's true?

Yeah. Maybe saying three places is not enough. Maybe you can, you should say four. Four, five. Okay. So what are the other two or one or two? Bordeaux. Bordeaux, okay. Yeah. But it's always a blend. No, no, no, no. Oh, no. There's pure. So I always thought it was for, uh, for, um, for the sweets. Yes. Normally 80 times, uh, eight times on 10, you can find it.

Okay. Okay. I was, I don't know why. I was always under the impression that Bordeaux Blanc, and this just goes to show you how long ago I studied wine. The Bordeaux Blanc was always, so the, the good ones, uh, when you want to find a, a good label of white normally is 100% Sauvignon. Well, that's sort of where Sauvignon B Blanc was born, right?

Yeah. In Bordeaux. Okay. And then what would be [00:39:00] the, the fifth one? Ah, maybe Styria. Styria. Ah, okay. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think we should say also that, um, I'm not really, um, I have not a good knowledge about that, but I have test a lot of really interesting things. Styria is not too far from here. No, absolutely.

Absolutely. It's, it's, but is it similar soil or is it completely different? I don't want to, uh, respond to this question because I'm not enough. Uh, okay. Yeah, I can, I can respond to you on New Zealand. Okay, for sure. Well, let's, let's talk about that then. Yeah. So having worked with New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc and you make.

Friulian and Sauvignon Blanc, what's, what's very similar and what's very different about those two? But you have to, to say that 90% of Sauvignon Blanc in New Zealand is made by five or six wineries. Okay. Very big winery. Yeah. To imagine, to imagine that. Okay. Um, there is one winery that is making 75% of the Sauvignon Blanc of New Zealand [00:40:00] as a contractor.

As a contractor. Okay. So it's not even a bottler? No. They're just, they're just growing Sauvignon Blanc normally selling it normally New Zealand. Um, the, the, this, the person that, uh, have the land, uh, is um Okay. Is a venture capital. Venture capital. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And normally it is not a New Zealand one from outside of New Zealand.

Yeah. A lot of times from, uh, Hong Kong or, uh, or, or China a lot of time. Ah, yeah. Interesting. The, the farmer that is growing up, the, the vines, . It's not the, the, the person that is making the wine, he's selling, he's selling the grapes to a person or to a, a company that is, uh, not making the wine. He's buying the grapes, but the contractor is making the wine for the, the company that you want to sell the, the wine at the end.

Okay. And so could it [00:41:00] be that one contractor is making wine for lots of different wineries, lots of different labels, huh? Yeah, really. And also the, the bottler normally is not the same company that of the contractor of, or the seller. Wow. And, uh, my wine, my winery was connected, uh, by a pipe. Underneath the, the road Okay.

To a big, uh, contractor for bottling. Okay. And so the two free wineries big that were around, were connected by, by hose and underground pipelines. Yeah. Wow. So it's such a different concept to what we have Yeah. Here and Friuli. Yeah. It's, and Friuli, it's like everybody has to have their own bottling wine.

Everybody has to have their own tractor, their own, you know, it's very, very different. Yeah. But this is 80% of, uh, the production. Okay. The other 20% is, like, Friuli is like Friuli. Okay. Little wineries that are making the best as they [00:42:00] can, uh, that they work from, uh, uh, the, the, the morning to the, to the night.

Mm-hmm. to try to, to find a better way to, to have a wonderful bottle of wine. Okay. And, uh, that's another, um, Especially little, little families that were doing that. Okay. And that was so similar to f Did you get a chance to visit some of those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have, I have take 15 days with my friend.

What was, uh, was working, uh, in, uh, in another winery, in, uh, in New Zealand. We had, uh, we have bought a car for uh, 1000 u uh, euros. Okay. And $1,000. Okay. $1,000, which is different than 1,600 Euros. Euros. Yeah. And we have a, we had a wonderful two weeks around New Zealand, uh, especially I advise you Central Otago.

Central Otago, yeah. In the desert of the, it's called desert in the [00:43:00] south island. Mm-hmm. . And there they have water, but it's desert. Uh, and they have a really big change of, um, temperature during day and night. Okay. They make some pinot noir. Fantastic. Really? Yeah. Little wine is like five 10 at Maxi. Is, is that economically viable in a place like New Zealand?

because I mean, obviously you, you make a living with your family winery. Yeah. Which is six hectares. Yeah. Right. Plus you obviously you make money from consulting Yeah. For the big winery that you work for now. But is so, can you know, it's difficult to think in a place where these wineries are just enormous, that a five, little, five hectare finally winery could, could survive.

Is that possible? Or they managed somehow? My favorite winery, that is Rua, uh, that is, uh, phylloxera free winery. Okay. Because in the sand of, uh, of the desert, uh, they have not, [00:44:00] uh, what is it called? Rua? Rua. Rua. R u a. Yeah. Okay. He's the next, uh, player of, um, uh, football, uh, from, uh, England. Okay. Really famous one, but I don't remember the name.

And, uh, few weeks ago I've sold the winery to Constellation wine. , Uhhuh . It's arrived at some result of his brand. . Okay. So now I think Constellation Wine, uh, that have bought the winery will make, he was making like, uh, 50,000 bottles, I think. All right. Now cons, constellation Wine will make 50 million

Exactly, exactly. So let's, let's come back to Friuli, because I, I wanna talk about the wines that you make at home because you know you are here and we, it's, it's amazing listening to your story and your experience. But I do also want to talk about, you know, what you're doing in Buttrio and, you know, maybe we can talk a little bit about how Buttrio is very similar or different [00:45:00] to places where you've been before.

But, um, Buttrio is, is the, the southern most part of Colli Orientali. Right? So tell me a little bit about what Buttrio is all about, at least for you and you know, what kind of wines you make, what kind of grapes you grow. But you know that Buttrio is, uh, is the hottest part of Colli Orientali, not only the Southern, but the hottest because, uh, what is divided by Natisone River?

That means, uh, Buttrio and Ipplis and, um, sorry, what is on the valley that is not next to the Alps? Okay. Is the triangle. I can say Buttrio manzano. All these hills are hotter than what is near the, the, the Alps, because all the Colli Orientali are like a "C". that are con, really connected from Tarcento to, to, uh, to some, to Cividale and Prepotto are [00:46:00] connected to the Alps.

Yeah. It's, it's, it's like it's a crescent. Yeah. Right. And so we're looking at the bottom of the crescent Atrio. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and Buttrio is in the middle of the valley. If you look on the map is, uh, incredibly out of, what is the, the other part of Colli Orientali. Okay. And this means that is, uh, really hotter, completely different place, uh, for making wine.

Mm-hmm. . So it's not, um, at the end in the history of Buttrio, you will look, uh, the, the best wines are red. Right. Yeah. It's known for its reds. Yeah. If you look at the, uh, may I say some names? Sure, of course. No, there's no problem here. I remember some Zamo incredibly made in Buttrio. Yeah. Because the winery is in Manzano, but one of the best wine, uh, wine, uh, wines Vineyards.

Vineyards is in Buttrio, true . Um, Miani, of course. Okay. But, uh, uh, 20 years before, or 50 year before, uh, Dorigo. Yeah. And, [00:47:00] uh, 300 years before Conte d'Attimis Of course. Yeah. Okay. So, so I've said four names. Really important for red, for red wines. Yeah. In Buttrio. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't, I I cannot. So do you concentrate on reds?

Mm. I think my best product is a red. Okay. Um, I am, the, the good wine, the good vineer that I have is not so big, but it's so good. And I make a Rosso riserva really nice. Okay. It's a mixed vard because it is really old, and so you have many vines from different types because, uh, obviously in, in 100 years, uh, a lot of things has changed Yeah.

In the economy freely. Right. So it's, it's literally a hundred year old vineyard. Yeah. Yeah. That's just mixed. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know more or less what's in there? More or less is Merlot, Cabernet, Refosco Okay. That the third. The third. But you have also things that are [00:48:00] absolutely impossible to understand really. Yeah. So completely foreign and weird things.

Yeah. Yeah. And also some white that we harvest before. Okay. And so, There is one harvest for white, one ar one harvest for red. But at the end, what I wanna, um, say about, uh, Buttrio Breo and what I wanna connect to the, the, uh, the question that you have, make me on the, on Bordeaux. Okay. Before Okay. Okay. Is what have you bring from Bordeaux, right, exactly.

Uh, the approach. Ah, okay. Yeah. We never did understand what that approach was, but yes, the approach is, um, uh, uh, what we are selling. We are selling a red okay. Wine that we call "Riserva Colli Orientali". There is no variety. Good. Okay. It's not allowed to, to, to write on, but. . Ah, you cannot write the name. No. Because there is now the subtle zone and that Okay.

Okay. It is a technical thing, but [00:49:00] Okay. But it's is, uh, enough, it's enough for the world. For as big as, is it? The word is enough, right? Riserva so means minimum three years after, uh, harvest. Okay. And, uh, a vintage, we are selling 2015 at the moment. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so I think we have said enough about the wine. Okay.

We don't need, that's enough information. Yeah. For me it's like that. And I have, uh, find that also for the customer is enough. Uhhuh. . Okay. Because when you say. "Rosso Riserva" because if you say Rosa seems like, uh, ta Okay. Okay. Table wine. Right. But if you say Rosso Reserva, the people understand that there is something more special.

Something special. Okay. Okay. And then, okay, Rin, so they think about something not, uh, too deep. Not too heavy, okay. Mm-hmm. ? No. Maybe too. Maybe deep. Maybe deep. Because the rices from color entire [00:50:00] are deep. They are, they can be, uh, especially when they have good acidity. Mm-hmm. . Um, but they are not heavy. . They, they have a structure, but they are not heavy.

And this, uh, for Italian wines is, uh, a really important thing. Mm-hmm. , because we have many, many really nice reds in Italy, but most of them are too big for the market, too big for the, uh, nowadays taste, I guess. Oh, okay. Because everyone's looking for something fresher and lighter. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, 30 years ago we, we were tasting a lot of, uh, south Tuscany, Sicily wines.

Nowadays we are more focused maybe on Barolo. Okay. Okay. Yeah. If we are speaking about breads and in freely, it is able to make great wines that are not heavy. Okay. Maybe not all the vintages. Okay. Maybe can we get some, we get some hotter ones that makes it more difficult. Yeah. Especially in a place like Breo.

Yeah. 20 years ago when I was a child, maybe [00:51:00] it was the opposite. Uh, they, they cold, uh, they cold, uh, harvest were terrible. So I want to say in the nineties, uh, were good. Seven. Seven vintages on 10. Okay. So, but no one was bad for, uh, two Sun. Oh, okay. Nowadays is the opposite. It's the opposite. Yeah. Too much sun.

Too hot. Yeah. Too dry. Yeah. So the approach, the French approach that you brought home is what? This idea of just selling a red wine, that's your Riserva and that's it. So what's, what's the Bordeaux approach in that wine? First thing, when I was in Santa Mi, I have formed to my, to my dad. Here we are making, uh, really simple vilification.

Uh, we are not touching the grapes. Uh, we are just dis steam. and, uh, um, and putting in the, in the vets and then, uh, one pump over a a day, and that's all. A little bit of sulfur [00:52:00] dioxide. One pump over a day. Yeah. And that was for making rats. Okay. If the grapes are good, they don't need other things. Okay. So I said, dad, we are doing that.

My, my dad say to me, oh, you are crazy. They are crazy. Okay. Uh, but, uh, he tried one tank alone without saying nothing to me. And I can, when I came back, I have tasted this wine. It was 2011 and, uh, it was also a good vintage. Um, the wine was, , uh, it was the first, uh, try to make the rosary server that we have nowadays.

Was it definitely different from the other wines that you made? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you could see a difference right away? Yeah. Yeah. Before, because it's a, a little, uh, vard at the beginning we were putting in this vineyard with the others. So we have selected the tur, the [00:53:00] good Turo. We have inated without touching.

Okay. No, east, just for dioxide. One pump over a day. That's all. That's it. Uh, after that 24 months of, uh, of wood, okay? All wood. And this is bordo. Okay? So, so this is the approach. This is the approach, okay? Nothing more than what the NAF give you. And, uh, no way to try to find. One variety. One particular thing?

No. Okay. We have a good wine that is recognizable, that is coming from Bordo. Is is recognizable. That is coming from Breo. Okay. Our job is done. Perfect. Okay. Perfect. Uh, this is the approach. Okay? That's the approach. And at the end, I should say that nowadays in bdo, this is start not, not start [00:54:00] nowadays.

This is, uh, an approach that is only for some little wineries that are dogmatic and some big wineries really known that, that, uh, they can afford this thing. Okay? The big part of Bordeaux, Bordeaux is 35% of the in, in France, okay? 35% of the aoc. Five five billions euros of wine. Okay? Okay. 1 billion bottles.

Wow. Okay. The big amount of this, uh, this area is too much touch from the winemakers in the last 20, 30 years. Mm-hmm. . And now it's too much manipulation. Yeah. And nowadays you look that the people are asking for Burundi wines, not for bordo wine. It's true. It's true. Yep. But, uh, um, if we have a tasting, , I can, uh, show you that, uh, Bordeaux is more similar, uh, to ri [00:55:00] than what you think.

Hmm. Yeah. Like the little farmers in New Zealand. I was speaking before. Yeah. I, I'll, I'm, I'm ready for that tasting whenever you wanna, when you want, yeah. Whenever you want to do a bordeaux buto tasting. So we shouldn't pay attention if we are little producer or also if we are, if we are winemakers or manager in the big industry.

We should pay attention to not lose the origin of the, of the, of the wines that you had before. Uh, you should pay attention to not copy. Uh, sometimes unconsciously. Ah-huh . Okay. You have tasted many wines really good coming from another region, and so you want to have the same thing here. So you try to put more wood to pump up the ripening of the, of the berries.

Okay. Okay. Really bad thing for the consultant in Bordeaux was, um, having [00:56:00] too much ripe, uh, uh, berries. Okay. Because it was saying that, uh, the, the ripening and the um, the too much ripening berries and the too much extraction from the maceration. Were not bad for the wines, but were canceling. Um, cleaning the, what's, what was coming from the terroir?

Okay. Okay. So if I pick up some grapes in Tuscan, in, in Bordeaux, and I make free, um, super, super r berries, uh, one week or two weeks more than what is necessary, and I, uh, make a big maceration with, uh, punch off, pump over and uh, punch down, pump over and, uh, del and tans and food and chips and whatever the, the, the, the, it all becomes the same.

Yeah. Okay, good. But the same, right? So what can we say to the market when we are selling a [00:57:00] bottle that it cost a little bit more from the, another bottle that is coming maybe from Chile or from other places or from Napa? Yeah. We should say we are recognizable. This is our wine. Mm-hmm. . . And so because the land is something that no one can store to you, right?

A piece of market is something that every year can be stolen, of course. And, and, and the market in the wine is necessary to buy barrels, to, to pay of, of, to pay the work and, and to do good wines. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And provide for your family and all of those, those wonderful things. Yeah. I, it's, um, so what we're saying here is, um, the, the, the concept of place is easily lost if you over manipulate or you're trying to chase a certain particular style, whereas your idea of less intervention of the [00:58:00] wine, obviously keeping in mind the, the health of the wine and making sure everything's fermenting well and no problems with, uh, Brett or other types of, um, let's say, Uh, defects, you're, you're much more likely to bring out the very unique characteristic of that wine from your place.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that's your approach? It's my approach, but also in the wineries where you consult. Yeah. If I can. Yes. Also, because, um, I think that, uh, when you consult, you should, um, 90% of the time the consultant are working in wineries, consult and winemaker. And it depends after, but as, as you can, as you want to say mm-hmm.

But at the end, in the winery, there is, um, already, uh, a worker, uh, continu, I dunno how you say, in cellar hand, a seller hand that is able to make the wine. Okay. The consultant should come to [00:59:00] the winery to say, to give an approach and to mix an approach with, uh, the signature of the family. Mm-hmm. . or, or, or mix the, with the approach with a, a signature of the brand.

Okay. Uh, you cannot arrive and change all. No. Okay. Yeah. You can't come in and say, okay, we're starting from the beginning all over again. And also the, and also doing nothing because the, the seller end is already able to 90, 90% of the, the, of the times that the solar is able to make a good wine. Okay. Okay.

Because he is, he's not a stupid guy, nor No. Okay. So he knows that, uh, he should put some sensor for dioxide protect from, uh, from the air clean, the, the, the, the, the tanks. And so, and a common normal, eh, normal wine could be done if the, obviously Okay. The winemaker should give an approach to the, to the winery nowadays.

Mm-hmm. , 50 years ago, the, the, the winemakers were going to the wine. [01:00:00] To avoid the production of vinegar. Oh, okay. Nowadays they are, they are in the winery to give an approach. And so to give, um, added value mm-hmm. to the wine. Well, so many times, I mean, when you talk, I'm not gonna name any consultants or winemakers.

A lot of times a consultant will come in and put their stamp on the wines from that winery. Um, they say, oh, we need a X, Y, Z consultant because he's gonna come in and save us. And everybody loves his or her wines. So they come in and they say, okay, what you used to do in the past? No, here's what we're gonna do.

Bam, I'm gonna put my stamp. And everybody's gonna say, oh, that's his wines. Okay. He makes wine for them too. Mm-hmm. . So you're saying this is not what a consultant should be doing nowadays? No. Nowadays, no. So 50 years ago, not making vinegar, vinegar. 20 years ago, 30. , um, that was the job of [01:01:00] the consultant, the stamp.

Okay. I think, uh, a winemaker nowadays should arrive and, uh, give the approach that the winery needs. Okay. The single winery needs. So it's an understanding of the winery, it's brand, it's position, where are you selling it's potential? Who is buying your wine? Oh, okay. So which is the market that you wanna go to.

So it's not just making wine, but you have to understand the markets that they're working in. Yeah. And 90% of the time, also be able to speak to the big customer mm-hmm. to explain why they should buy the wines. Okay. Okay. Not the normal customer, but if it's there is a, a match with, uh, an importer n normally the winemaker should have a place on the table in the, in the b2b.

Okay. Okay. And, uh, this is something that is happening. So, yeah. And obviously you've been doing that as [01:02:00] well , if the winery needs for sure. And I, and, and I'm really happy to do that. Okay. Because it is, uh, you have the feedback and you can understand if the, the people from that market have, um, have a good opinion of your wines mm-hmm.

and what you're doing and, and all these things. So it's easy after to understand it is easy for the buyer to understand the wines, but it's e easy to understand if the job that you're doing is good in the winery. Okay. Uh, and there is no way better than that. Okay. So coming back to my winery Yeah. That's why I was speaking about grocery server.

Right. It make also a Bianca server and Armando. Ah, I Armando because my mother was, uh, was from Nimis. My, my, my father has, um, um, married my mother for an interest. He was, it was in [01:03:00] ri he, he need another terroir for making sweet wines. Ah-huh. Uh, that's affordable. That's dad. That's the secret. That's the secret.

And, um, so these three wines are the wines that I ask for the lc. Okay. Because I think that, um, only a wine that have certain cost mm-hmm. and the certain quality Okay. Should be at the level of a label that has Right color Italian it. Okay. Um, Quality I've said, but also cost. Mm-hmm. , because if there is not a cost enough, I'm not able to, to do the, the same wine they are after.

Okay. And so these are the three wines that I, that I sell as in lc. Okay. The other wines, they're, they're labeled with the A O C D O C, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And they have also a different label. Okay. Oh, so have a completely different [01:04:00] label. Yeah. And then you make another line, another line that, uh, is, uh, made by good wines.

Normal wines with no wood, no nothing, uh, nothing strange, uh, uh, and meco just for the, I can say in wine for every day. Mm-hmm. , but they are e g T. Okay. When I say Julia, g t, I don't wanna put the, the label Korean, Italian on something that is not perfect. I respect a lot the, the place where I make wine.

Okay. And, uh, and so, When I make wine in my winery, I look also at the customer, but also at the people that ask me for making wine for them. Okay. Because obviously there is my surname on the label. On the bottle. Yep. Yeah. So I wanna say that the wine that I'm proud of [01:05:00] are the wines that have the . Okay.

That's, that's my, that's your focus. Yeah. Yeah. The wines are good, but it is not something that I will show you. Okay. Come to my home. I want to let you taste this, uh, this resource gold baseline. Okay. So can I ask you what the, the proportion is as far as volume is concerned between let's say, the everyday wines and.

The, the call the proportion of quantity. Quantity, yeah. Oh. But the winery is so little, so it's difficult to make, uh, stati statistics that have, uh, but it's like, uh, one third, two third. Okay. Yeah. That's a good, I think that's a good proportion. The, the, the color is one third and, uh, the tutor is, uh, yeah.

Okay. Two third is the every day. Yeah. Drinking wines. Okay. And I'm trying to be, not to grow up with my winery, but to grow up the quantity of, uh, color mentality that I made. Okay. [01:06:00] I don't want a made more than the 20,000 bottle that I do. Okay. I wanna make more co Italian, less, uh, less of the, of your day.

Wine T wines. Okay. Um, that's very smart. because obviously there's a price difference. Yeah. There is also another cost, another cost as well, of course. But, uh, I think making better and making good is every time, uh, a good choice. Mm-hmm. , especially in this world where the, the industry is able to make big volumes at prices that are really low.

And sometimes, or, or a lot of times in industrial wines are also good. They're good. Yeah. They're not bad. So I should, um, I cannot, um, fight on that part of the market. Okay. And, uh, so my family give me one of the best ones that are in the world. I can say, uh, let me laugh a little bit, but for sure it is one of the piece of [01:07:00] land where you can make really nice wine, so I wanna, uh, focus on it.

Okay. So if somebody came to, um, visit you that you obviously have. You know, your winery there in Breo, but you also have like a place where people can come and Yeah. Yeah. Have a glass of wine. Yeah. And have a little bite to eat as well. Yeah. 70% of the bottles are sell in the, in the Viner. Ah, that's, so you sell 70% direct.

Yeah. Yeah. That's an incredible number for free. You li, I mean, I know wineries by glass or, or, or my bottle. Okay. Okay. Because I know a lot of important wineries that do 2% and you're doing 70. Yeah. You know, I had, um, uh, the, the owner of Veer here, and I was shocked when she said she did 45%. Yeah. But 45 of, of a bigger amount.

Yes, exactly. But I'm saying yeah, 45% is a lot. Yeah. 75% is, is, is spectacular. And that's [01:08:00] a whole different economy of selling wine as well. Your margins are different than if you were selling those wines to an importer or a distributor. Yeah, I'm at the end also the. Um, The, yeah, the, yeah. How do you say in, in English?

I wouldn't know, but the, the ability to welcome people Yeah. Uh, is something that is really expensive. Is expensive. Yeah. It's really expensive. Should pay attention at, it's not risky. Okay. Okay. Because they buried, they, you are selling your wine and more or less you're selling every, every day, every month, the same, uh, quantity.

Mm-hmm. . Um, you don't stay out with a lot of money in the time that the wine, the wines are arriving in another country and all of the, all of these things. But at the end, having a good moment with the people that are coming to buy your wine, to taste your wine, it's really expensive because you need a lot of time.

That's true. You're talking about your [01:09:00] time. My time. But at the end, my time, it costs like the time of a, a worker. Okay. Okay. Because, because, If I, if I lose time with a customer, uh, I cannot do another thing. Exactly. Okay. Uh, I have already another job. Uh, my, my brother also that we are now managing the winery, and so we have four people working in the Viner.

Okay. Is that including you and your brother or No, no, no. Plus, so you have four employees? Yeah. That at the end there are like two and a half employees because there are the shifts, and we are not, they're not all full-time. Yeah. But at the end, they can say two and a half free, free person that, uh, should, uh, be paid all on the difference by the cost of production of the bottle and the, and the price of the bottle that you sell.

And also maybe also another little part should be for the producer. Of course. Of [01:10:00] course. So don't think that the direct selling is something cheap. Okay. Commercial costs are more or less the same that you can have, uh, by having a, a fair Induc Sandor. Okay. Or having someone that is, uh, running Italy with the car to, to sell the wines.

Okay. Yeah. But I think when you think about direct sales, a lot of times you think about seller door, you have a different situation where you have a structure which you just built. Yeah. Which is a beautiful place, um, where you have people who work and cook and wash dishes. Yeah. So it's almost like a small re.

It's like a only cold food, no warm dishes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So there, yeah, that is a different, so it's different if you just had like a table in your cellar and you were selling 75% over the table. Yeah. Yeah. But you should be really known for that. Okay. And, um, [01:11:00] in this way, in the way that we do also, you can manage the, the cost of the workers also by the selling of the glass.

Okay. Because I sell also by glass, wine by the glass. Yeah. It's not like in a, which you can't do in a, in a seller no door situation. No. Normally you let taste them. Taste and then you hope they buy bottles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is something good if you, if you have a big, uh, big name or, yeah. Or a lot of people.

Already coming like we are, for example. Okay. But it's not our situation. So , is it complicated, sort of bureaucratically to create a place where you sell glasses of wine? It's not easy. It's not easy. It's not easy. Okay. Okay. Uh, I have, uh, four people. All, all of them are really, um, are really, um, they have a good curriculum.

Yes. Okay. Well we all know Dante. [01:12:00] Yeah. Dante is, is a, is a myth. He's a man and myth, Dante is the chief and is the most, , uh, the most known, uh, person, person in inside. But all the four people have worked in many other, uh, restaurants or bars or, so they have their following as well. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not easy.

It's not easy. It's not easy. Absolutely. Uh, but, uh, if you do or you need, uh, it's not risky. It's not risky. Risky, something not risky. So it's not risky, but it's not easy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, uh, so it's already enough to be not risky. Okay. Especially in this economy that we, we don't know what will happen tomorrow.

No, exactly. Exactly. So just so is it, is it a little bit of a, a, a guarantee for you? Yeah. Yeah. That you always have sort of this flow Yeah. Of wine coming in and going out, selling by the glass. Okay. Some visitor. Well, I'm gonna try and visit your vanity more often, so [01:13:00] I, I hope so. Yes. So, but, um, it was really nice getting to know you.

I've kept you here for an hour and 15 minutes, so I don't want to keep you. much longer, but, , , I really want to thank, it's, you know, it's a great conversation with you, , a bit different from the usual sort of, uh, conversation, but I really love learning more about where you've been and where you've come from and what you've brought back to your winery and, um, and yeah, so I mean, is is there anything that I didn't ask you that you would want to say before we go?

Because I've taken up a lot of your time. No, I think we have, uh, touch a lot of covered, a lot of things covered. Yeah. Okay. Cool. All right. Well thank you very much Gabrielle, for your time tonight. Thank you. It was a great podcast. I appreciate, uh, all of your insight and your experience. And I'll see you at the Vineria.

Okay? All right. Thanks. I wait you.