Nicola Ermacora is a talented communicator and a lover of nature. In this "Best of" episode we talk about the Ermacora winery and some of the unique things Nicola and the winery do to protect biodiversity and the greater environment.
[00:00:19] Welcome to La Taverna Friuli Wines, the definitive podcast on wines from Friuli Venezia Giulia. I'm your host, Wayne Young. Hello friends of Friuli and Wine. This is Wayne Young and La Taverna. Finally an English
[00:00:47] episode for you today, but it is a best of that's coming at you today. Going back to the beginning of 2023 with an interview with Nicola ERMACORA. I hope you enjoy this best of edition of La Taverna for this week. New season coming soon. Be patient. We are definitely bringing you new episodes very,
[00:01:12] very soon. Thank you for listening and we'll see you very soon with the new season of La Taverna. Until then, I leave you with this best of episode with Nicola ERMACORA.
[00:01:36] And here we are at the tasting academy of Colli Orientale del Friuli with Nicola ERMACORA. One of the things that I actually wanted to talk about with you Nicola to start off is a lot of Americans and a lot of English speaking people mispronounce the name of your winery. So let me hear it from you. You pronounce the name? It's ERMACORA. ERMACORA. See, that's not, not ERMACORA.
[00:02:02] Yeah. But you know, um, there are also a lot of Italians that mispronounce it. Oh really? So yeah. Yeah. I would not be offended or I would turn around anyways. Okay. Well, thanks for coming by and spending some time with us today, Nicola. You also brought us a bottle of Friulano and a bottle of Pignolo to taste as well. So if we get through both bottles in an hour, we're going to be leaving here in bad shape. ERMACORA is going to be a very funny podcast, especially at the end. So fast forward. Yeah, exactly. Fast forward to the drunken ending.
[00:02:29] Exactly. Where we're slurring our speech and talking about things that we shouldn't be talking about. Anyway, politically incorrect stuff. But anyway, this is an interesting podcast for me simply because this is the first time that I've visited a winery for the first time right before doing a podcast. So I have so many things going on in my head and so many things that I want to ask you and talk to you about.
[00:02:55] But I always want to start off with, with the person, right? So I want to talk about you. So tell me a little bit about you and maybe a little bit about the winery, but you know, Nicola, who are you? Wow. This is like, it could be like the easiest question, but it's always the hardest one, you know? Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm a human being. So that's, you know, I know AI or artificial intelligence chit-chatting with you. So I'm a human being. Right. Not a deep fake.
[00:03:25] Exactly. I'm a guy with big dreams. Okay. That's good. I took in different paths for sure before ending in the winery, which was always my destination though. So it was, you know, it was a long journey, but it was always my final destination and the one I wanted to be. Okay. I'm 31 years old. My name is Nicola, which is not typical probably for a Friuli region is more of a Southern name, but that's true.
[00:03:54] My mom and my father just liked it. I think all of my wife's relatives in Sicily are named Nicola. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's typical in Puglia. She's Sicilian, but yeah, more or less. No, I'm joking. But the last name, it's very, very typical. Actually, Ermacora is the saint and protector of Friuli and Udine. Ah, that I didn't know. So it's like, yeah, it's like saying, I don't know. Saint Ermacora. Yeah. Saint Ermacora. So it's like saying, you know, the Brambilla of Friuli for people who know something about it.
[00:04:23] The Brambilla would be Milano. Lombardia. Lombardia. Yeah. So we're not many, but we're very local. And, um, what I like most to do in my free time, uh, it's strolling around like vineyards, of course, as you might expect, but it's everything that has to do somehow with wilderness and activities in the open air.
[00:04:45] I like to drive my motorcycles and do free camping with my girlfriend. Uh, I like to visit countries and, you know, with a tent and stuff like that. So I, I like everything that is connected to this feeling of freedom and yeah, you know, that, that kind of activities. We were talking, you just came back from Namibia. Yeah. How long did you stay there? Uh, two weeks, two weeks. Yeah. Two weeks. We, we camped there for two weeks with Elena. Uh, Elena. Yeah. She's my girlfriend. Is your girl. Okay.
[00:05:15] Yeah. And I'm lucky enough that we, you know, share similar, similar passions. Right. Yeah. So how long have you been dating? Oh, two years, but it feels interesting. In a good way. Like it has been for life. Really? Uh, yeah. I think we just connected right from the very beginning. So two months after we started hanging out, not even dating, we started living together. Wow.
[00:05:40] Yeah. Which, which maybe it's normal for, you know, other countries or areas, but in Italy is not like a very common thing. Okay. You know, uh, yeah. Living together here is kind of less. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And no, we started living together right away. And, and even our closest friends, every time they hang out with us, they, they forget that we actually been dating for two years now. Not like 15. That you haven't been together since. Yeah. Ever since. The late seventies. It just clicked. I don't know. Okay. That's great.
[00:06:09] Yeah. How did you meet? Just real quick. I don't want to concentrate too much on your love life, but no, but you seem like a really happy guy. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I was just lucky. I think. Yeah. So how did you meet? Uh, we actually met in the vineyards, which might sound weird because she doesn't do anything that it's wine related. She is actually a physiotherapist. Okay. So she helps people to feel better with their body while I help people feeling better with their self and mind eventually with good wine.
[00:06:40] Good, good combo. Exactly. Yeah. She, she was going back and forth from Padova where she was being a physiotherapist also from, for a local, well, actually very famous, uh, rugby team there. Okay. Um, but she was about to move in Friuli. Uh, so she was going back and forth every weekend. And, um, one day we just crossed each other. We, we knew, you know, here, everyone knows each other. Um, and I was like, okay, uh, if you pass by there and you see me around in, you know, just, just stop by to say hi.
[00:07:09] And one time she was passing by most clapada where we were, uh, where we were just an hour. Yeah. And we just, we started chatting and it just felt like we've always knew each other. Wow. And, and then from there, we just, you know, the, it was a tiny push and then there was just an avalanche of love. I don't want to be cliche or no, but that's, but I'm really happy. That's wonderful. All right. That, that is, um, that is a really feel good way to start off a wine podcast.
[00:07:38] Talk about togetherness and love and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, that's great. It's a good combination. She, she, you know, especially if you're going to be like camping, hiking and motorcycling, someone's going to have to fix your back. Yeah, she does. Uh, my life definitely improved a lot. I don't know. Really? You know, if her improved with all the wine and bringing home, I like to think so. I hope so. But mine definitely improved. I don't have a bad pain, you know, like back pain or, or stuff like that anymore.
[00:08:06] That's great. That's great. So let's talk. So you said you always knew that wine was your thing. Yes. I always knew to be very frank. I always knew that something that has to do with nature and, and something that has some philosophy in it because you know, in wine, there's lots of, of philosophy in a good sense, not bullshit.
[00:08:24] That's another thing, but philosophy, it's a good thing. But to be honest at the very beginning, it felt a bit too, uh, tight to me, to be honest, because my family, um, they're fantastic. They give me so many opportunities to study and to do so many different things. Um, but they had one rule when I was young that you don't go away with your friends.
[00:08:49] If everyone is working at the winery, if you don't want to help, it's fine. Right. If you want to, you know, play outside or do whatever, it's fine. But since we have people working here with us and helping us to, you know, build something, it's not respectful towards them to, you know, just play.
[00:09:08] So I always hated this thing, right? Because my friends were going to the river to play and so on and so forth. You know, I don't want to sound like I've had this horrible childhood, but sometimes I had to say no more times than the ones I wanted.
[00:09:20] Okay. So I always felt like, Oh, why can't my family just do something else for a living? You know? Okay. Uh, but then on the contrary, I really loved the, you know, the environment and the fact that we live surrounded by vineyards and nature and bushes as you've seen earlier today, but it was one sliding door, right? That's how you call it.
[00:09:43] Okay. So I knew I belonged to this place and the nature in a sense to give it an extra, uh, meaning, but I spent one year in the Arctic circle when I was 17. So I did a year abroad. Okay. Uh, to study English and to grow as a person, I would say. So my last year of high school. In the Arctic circle.
[00:10:05] Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, the city is called yellow knife, which was in Canada. Um, let's say, okay. If you draw a line middle of Canada, a vertical line and you draw a line middle of Alaska where they meet, it's yellow knife. Okay. Okay. And it's a very, very tiny little village. The one that you see on discovery channel, you know, where tracks drive on the ice roads and, uh, and there are, uh, you know, uh, they actually, uh, have shot.
[00:10:34] Two series. One is called ice road trackers and one was like bush pilots or something like that in yellow knife. Yeah. It's so extreme stuff that you see in discovery channel. Wow. It's crazy. Why the hell did you pick that place? I didn't really pick yellow knife, uh, but it was the best. You got stuck there. Yeah. But it was the best, uh, you know, fortuna. Yeah. Okay. I got, um, because I wanted to go, I really love downhill skiing. Okay.
[00:11:03] Okay. And I wasn't very clever person to, to be very frank because I thought that you could down the ski anywhere in Canada while Canada is mostly flat, right? Yeah. Okay. Oops. Oops. I had this dream about going to Canada where I can do downhill ski every day. Then I got a shortlisted in this like group for intercultura, but I was the first one on hold. Uh, is that correct in English standby? Yeah. Stand by. Okay.
[00:11:32] So there were like 25, uh, spots and it was number 26. Okay. Okay. So then I started to look for, you know, I wanted to, to, to learn English and to, to leave, to see something else and so on and so forth. So I started to apply for a scholarship at Sunshine Beach High School in Queensland, Australia. Uh-huh. I got accepted. And then once I got accepted, I got this letter from Canada that said, Hey, we have one more, you know. Somebody dropped out. Lucky you.
[00:12:02] I'm like, yes, it's my dream. I can down the ski. I'm going to drop this school where you mostly do surf every day to go down the ski. And then I ended up in the Arctic Circle. So it was really like super random. Your English would have been different too. For sure. Yeah. You would have been all about Barbies and. Probably. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Not yet. Yeah. And now I say, Hey, most of the time. And I'm like, Hey buddy, or, you know, dude and stuff like that. Exactly.
[00:12:29] And, um, and so I, I ended up there, but it was to reconnect to your first question. Uh, so it was a sliding door because when I was there, I miss so much. Everything, not in a bad way, but I miss like, I wanted to tell everyone what it was like to live on the hills of Iplis and what it was like to make wine, what it was like to just walk in the bushes without being eventually killed by some animal or, you know.
[00:13:00] I, I felt this responsibility of being, you know, an ambassador of what my family does, what this area for Friuli in Friuli does for wine that I, yeah, I just missed it so much. And I realized how connected I actually was to the job of my family that before it felt a little bit, you know, too tight. And so that was just, I guess just my love story was like click. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:29] I can, I can understand that you sort of like absence makes the heart grow fonder. Ambassador we say in English, right? Yeah. So you go away and you're like, yeah, man, that was kind of like my place. That's like my thing. Yeah, exactly. Here I am. I wanted to travel. I wanted to go and I'm gone and I just want to go back. Yeah. Yeah. You know, uh, there is a son to say, oh, you'd know your lover when you let her go. Exactly. In a sense. Exactly. Right. Yep. Yep.
[00:13:57] So, and it's interesting that you said like ambassador, because that's pretty much like what you do for the winery now. Yeah. You're very much involved in the communication. Yeah. You're very good at it. Thank you. Um, yeah, that's what I do. You know, there is always this fight in everyone, I think, uh, between what you do and what would be your dream job. So as we talk earlier, uh, my dream would be of course to, you know, spend all of my time
[00:14:24] in the vineyards and, you know, do some pilot projects and experiments, which I do, but it's maybe 15% of my time, I guess, because of, uh, English because of whatever reasons, because I don't know. But, uh, I ended up talking a lot about our story, talking a lot about our wines and, you know, helping my family to just get everyone to know what we do and how fantastic that is.
[00:14:53] You guys do a great job. And I mean, obviously I'm biased, of course. Uh, but I, I like that to help everyone to know what we do in our little, you know, to make the best wine we can, uh, make it better every year eventually. And also do something for, you know, the environment without being cliche and all this stuff, you know, I don't want to abuse some words that are being abused today, like, you know, like biodiversity and so on and so forth, but you saw it yourself. Yeah.
[00:15:23] Yeah. And yes, my role in the winery is to tell our story, help them and the family, because it's not just them, me, it's us, help us. Right. To, yeah. To be in the world. Okay. To exist. Do you travel a lot for the winery? Uh, yeah, uh, it's true. I travel not as much as other people, uh, my age do, uh, because I'm, uh, uh, I'd love to stay here. I'm not going to lie.
[00:15:52] I traveled a lot, uh, in my previous like experiences and, and you know, university and so on and so forth. So now I travel, but I try to travel smart. I don't travel for the sake of traveling. Okay. There are people that just want to stay outside, you know, they, they get energy out of seeing out of just like adding another stamp on their passport. Right.
[00:16:15] Adding a new restaurant to their list, adding, you know, another city they have visited, but you know, I'm more for like, um, less things. Okay. But in a deeper like way, you know, to, to leave a city eventually or to leave a place. So, um, you know, I don't want to travel for this. I don't want to take place for the sake of telling my friends, yeah, I've traveled 200
[00:16:43] days a year and then it's like, okay, but why? Well, yeah, exactly. What did you get out of that? Yeah. And yeah, I think it's also more sustainable in a sense. So I try to, when I move travel, do some fairs, try to maximize everything I can do. Okay. Uh, so, and also to do some incoming if possible to get people to see also because. Well, maybe we'll say later eventually in the podcast, but, uh, one thing that makes
[00:17:11] us special, I wouldn't say unique, but special is that we make wines only with our own grapes. Okay. Uh, so it's a state grown grapes only. And that's why we want to bring people in because we actually have the vineyards to show them, which might sound normal, you know, but it's not as normal as you think. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Uh, so we like to show the vineyards to people. We don't do winery tours. We do vineyard tours. So, so we've stepped into this, this, this realm here.
[00:17:40] So a hundred percent state grown grapes. So you don't buy any grapes. You don't buy any wine from anyone else. So, so we're going to talk about how many hectares do you have. Yeah. And, uh, tell us a little bit because there's a pretty complicated structure to the winery, um, because you have some different labels and things like that. So sort of set everything up for us and tell us about like, yeah, sure. How many hectares you have and how you sort of break that down. Okay. Into the different categories. So we move from love to numbers.
[00:18:10] Yeah. Just kidding. For the moment. We'll get back to the love. Once we have another glass of free love, we'll get all lovey-dovey again. Um, no, well, to, to put into numbers, uh, as of today, we have 70 hectares planted as vineyards. Then we have 30 hectares that are bushes mostly, or just land that can be either, you know, we either give to some friends so they can, you know, use it for, to grow something. Okay.
[00:18:38] Uh, to a local farm here and they pay us with, um, how do you say, uh, a big load of cow, uh, cow manure for, uh, my grandma's orchard. Oh, grandma has an orchard or a, or a garden? Garden. Garden. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Orchard is more like trees and, and apples. No, she's more into tomatoes and tomato sauce. Ah, okay. Yeah. She's the queen there.
[00:19:07] Towards, towards the middle of the summer, can I come over and get some tomatoes? Anytime. Fantastic. Yeah. And, uh, and so like that's, we, we have this, um, barato. So it's, I think it's very, uh, cool. It's very, um, primitivo in a sense. Okay. So, uh, you know, we give them land and they give us manure so that we can grow, you know, tomatoes. Tomatoes. It's just pretty cool. I think. So it's the way it should be. Yeah. And then, uh, we have, then stable, uh, gardens.
[00:19:34] I don't know if that makes any sense in English, like with flowers and all the stuff, you know, like that we just cut the grass. Uh, so like it would, they would be like, um, Prato Stabile. Prato Stabile. Sort of like meadows. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And bushes a lot. Okay. A lot. Bushes, forest. Yeah. Forest and so on and so forth. Yeah. Uh, in terms of bottles, uh, we have three labels, basically three brands.
[00:19:59] It's Hermakora, which is our, um, the brand for us. It's where we started from. Uh, it's the label that was always said, uh, and it's actually the wine that we make the most bottles out of it. Okay. Then we have a sort of, of an entry level label, but it's not really an entry level. It's more of, uh, a wine that we make for those places that want to move from tap wine
[00:20:28] to bottled wine without the burden of having a too complex of a wine. So maybe more of an easygoing wine, um, very approachable, uh, lower alcohol content and so on and so forth. And then, uh, one, it's, um, it's a winery that we acquired in 2016, uh, which actually you have pretty good connections with it. Maybe you can tell us more about it. Yeah. It's a pretty cool story.
[00:20:55] I was impressed, uh, to, to listen to it. Um, which is called Fantino d'Arra. Um, and it's a proper like winery with vineyards and so on and so forth. So we, we got it in 2016 and we, um, add the brand as well. So we wanted to, you know, continue the heritage of the winemaking, this fantastic winery on the hills of, uh, well, it's nearby the hills of Butrio. It's right on the corner between Butrio or Sari and Manzano.
[00:21:23] Uh, so, but they're locally considered as the hills of Butrio. Yeah. So these are the three, not lines, but the three wines we make. And three labels. Three labels. Exactly. And usually, you know, in wineries and in any other industry, it's a bit of a pyramid where you make more wines of your entry level, uh, label, and then you have, uh, less, uh, bottles or numbers in your more premium range. Right. For us, we're more of a ice cream cone. Ah, okay. Okay.
[00:21:53] Because we started with Ermacra, which is considered to be our premium. Right. But that's our standard in a sense, you know? And that's what you make the most of. Exactly. So yeah, it's like an inverted barrel. Yeah, exactly. It's an ice cream cone. Okay. All right. So we make very little, um, or less of our, you know, um, other basic range, uh, brigai. And then our label and the one we communicate the most and the one where we, uh, you know,
[00:22:20] we travel for it's Ermacra, which is our last name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fantino Dar for people who are listening, we is, is where I made wine, not as a winemaker, but as a, as a cantiniere for Bastianich, which rented Fantino Dar back in 2000, 2001, 2002. And I actually, uh, for the first two vintages actually lived upstairs. So, and I actually sent my wife who was my girlfriend at the time, a picture of that famous staircase. And she was like, yep, I recognize that place.
[00:22:49] So a lot of good memories. Yeah. We're not going to ask you why that staircase was so famous. Yeah. I also slept on that staircase many times waiting for the grapes to come in, but, uh, yeah, no, a lot of good memories. Thanks for bringing me back there and, and, and bringing back all of those good memories. Yeah. Yeah. Someday I'll write my memoirs. I didn't know about this part of your story. It was actually pretty cool. I, I felt I was unlocking something there.
[00:23:15] Well, that, that was the thing too, that I did not know that you guys had acquired Fantino Dar. I knew that they did a lot of work there, but I didn't know that that was you because I knew that the, the, the label still existed. Um, I knew that there was a lot of work being done, but I did not know that you had basically moved the entire production hub there. I mean, you, the seller is much bigger than when I worked in there. It's like five times bigger than when I was there. But, um, yeah, you, you guys took that over and that's your production facility now. Yeah.
[00:23:45] Um, for us, it just made sense. Um, we like to think of ourselves as Vignioli rather than winemakers, uh, for the reason I told you earlier. So the fact that we only make wines with our own grapes. So we literally are Vignioli because that's what we do. Then winemaking is a consequence in a sense. And, uh, back in 2016, we had this, uh, you know, moment where we're thinking of expanding
[00:24:13] the winery in Iplis, so where we live, but then we stop basically because we're like, okay, what do we want to do in life? If you know, you wanna maybe better communicate eventually wine and our style and everything is better to have one big winery where you have. You know, uh, the, the welcome part. Uh, then you have maybe a foresteria or you have offices, warehouse, uh, barrique and everything, right? Like just one place. In the same spot.
[00:24:43] Which makes sense. So you do some winery tours and so on and so forth. But then that would mean to compromise on quality. Why? Because, uh, we would have to drive the grapes literally from the vineyards, uh, to this facility, right? Uh, which is six kilometers away, which might sound very little, but, you know, think about, uh, driving a tractor in August when it's noon and it's 30 plus outside Celsius, you know,
[00:25:13] half an hour of that temperature really makes a difference because, you know, you destroy that little delicate, you know, aromas or you destroy, you start some fermentation that you don't want to start or you start some stuff with bacterias that you don't want to start and so on and so forth. So we're like, okay, uh, our main plot now is six kilometers away. What do we do?
[00:25:39] Uh, well, so remaining true to our, you know, idea of making wine with our own grains, like, okay, the only thing we need to do is to have a winery there, you know, to, you know, vinify the grapes in like 10 minutes. Okay. So that's why we decided to move all the production there. It was to remain true to, to, yeah, to our style in a sense, you know, because there, uh, it's
[00:26:04] the largest plot, but it's also the plot right in the middle between our three plots. One is around the cellar in Iplis, which is 23 hectares. Okay. There we have 40 hectares and then seven are just behind the hill in the Butrio area. So it was the largest one and the one in the very middle. Okay. So it just made sense. Yeah. So it was the perfect location. Yeah. It was just the perfect location. It's a bit what happens in, uh, in the Champagne area. Okay.
[00:26:32] You know, if you think about it, there are like tiny little, I wouldn't say cellar, but more of like press facilities every 200 hectares, more or less, so that you press the grapes right away. And then when the wine, you know, when you get the must, you drive the must to the main cellar. So they're like satellites, um, like press facilities. Yeah. Okay. And, and in a sense, it's what happened to us as well.
[00:26:58] You know, we, we needed to have this like satellite, which is our main though, um, press facility because just like in Champagne for us, what was very important is the preservation of the, of the grape, uh, to make sure that we have all that like delicate perfumes, you know, and that little shens that are very hard to reach and so on and so forth. Gotcha. Well, but right next to Fantine Nodar, you also have a very famous piece of land that
[00:27:27] you acquired in 2012, 2012, which is, uh, it's, um, well, people know it as Montsclapade. People known as Montsclapade. It's, um, former vineyards of the, of the Dorigo winery. And we acquired them in 2012 and yeah, that's, I guess where everything also started, you know, then we acquired a nearby, uh, winery of Fantine Nodar and so on and so forth.
[00:27:57] But 2012 for us was, you know, a very, how big is that Montsclapade? It's 20 hectares. So 20 plus another 20. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And they're like nearby. Right next to each other. I mean, we, yeah, we. It used to be, it used to be one exact, like one winery of 40 hectares and it's split exactly enough. So we somehow rebuild what used to be. Oh, really? Yeah. Ah. So what is that like before Dorigo? Yeah. It was one big 40. Dorigo took 20.
[00:28:27] Yeah, exactly. I think they split or something like that. Ah, I see that. I didn't know that. Yes. And it's actually something we're very proud of, to be honest, because one of the wines, um, they were very proud of making is Pignolo among all. Okay. Uh, we, we are among the first, you know, uh, we're not the first, but we're among the first wineries to, uh, you know, reintroduce this wine. And, uh, the Montsclapade vineyard is one of the most historical ones, the one planted by Girolamo Dorigo.
[00:28:57] So, you know, it's like, uh, yeah, it's a monument to Pignolo. So to be able to, uh, take care of those vineyards is like a dream. Wow. So are they, these, the original vines? Yeah. They're the original vines. Yeah. So they have to be 50 years old. Oh, no, they're not as old because Pignolo, uh, they're very, very, very old vineyards are in Abbazia di Rosazzo, which is nearby. Okay. But those was, that was one of the very first vineyards of Dorigo.
[00:29:27] Okay. Yeah. And, um, and it's 1990 and this might sound early, but for Pignolo story, that's quite ancient because Pignolo was almost, you know, it almost disappeared and it had this rebirth, uh, early rebirth, like a phoenix from the ashes in, um, yeah, in the late eighties. Okay. So if you have a vineyard that is dated in the nineties, you are among the very first vineyards. It's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big deal.
[00:29:55] It's not like, you know, we have older vineyards of Friulano, older vineyards of Pino Bianco, for example, and other varieties. But Pignolo, if you're in the nineties, you are like prehistoric. It's ancient. Ancient. Yeah. Yeah. If, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Pignolo, um, folded into the DOC regulations when they folded in, I think like Tazelenge and Schiupettino. Yeah.
[00:30:23] And now I don't want to say dates because then Ben is going to kill me. Uh, so read, read, uh, read Ben's book. Read Ben's book, but it was in the, yeah. In the, in the late eighties that it, uh, actually, uh, got in the, um, yeah. In the, in the DOC. Okay. Yeah. Late eighties, early nineties. So really like if you have a vineyard in nineties, that's, that's, that's the time. Yeah. It's the beginning. Okay. Then there are some older ones that are around the Abbey where they found the first row,
[00:30:51] the first rows of, uh, you know, uh, Pignolo and they replicated from them, but. Right. Yeah. And they're very old, I believe. Uh, yeah, they're older. I think the oldest vineyard of Pignolo is currently managed and owned by Casa Sola. I don't even know what that is. And they are nearby the Abbey and they were really, they are, I think that the old story there is super cool. It's one of those families that we have to thank for preserving Pignolo.
[00:31:17] Uh, you know, they, they actually saved some of the plants. So. Wow. Casa Sola. Casa Sola. Casa Sola. I'm going to have to look that up. I don't think I've ever heard of them. Yeah. Then they're near the Abadzia. They're near the Abadzia. Okay. Cause I know there's Ronkodiniemits in Zamol, which are near the Abadzia, but of them I've never heard of. Yeah. They're nearby and they were really like in Banks book, you also have some pictures of the, uh, journal, uh, the area.
[00:31:47] Okay. Okay. Of one of the, the, the ranch stores during the first world war. Okay. Please check everything I'm saying in general. Yeah. So first world war where he says that there are people in this vineyard of Pignolo, uh, like soldiers from Germany eating the grapes and he tells them to go away and they shoot bullets. Wow. You know, to, you know, like leave us alone.
[00:32:17] Wow. And, and so it's like, it's really one of those first, uh, vineyards and yeah, they're very connected to the story of Pignolo. Cool. So, so let's take a step back because, so we were sort of working backwards here. Yeah. So we have Fantino Dar gotten in 2016. Monscle Pag de Vineyard in 2012. 12? 12. Yeah. 12. Yeah. Okay. Step back another thing. Well, let's talk about it. Macora in Iplis.
[00:32:47] Where does that go back to? Where did that all start? Obviously that started with your dad. Yeah. Who is, is Dario. Dario. Okay. Yeah. And my uncle is Luciano. Okay. And then, and they're the founders of the winery or does it go back even further? Well, the first thing is that, as I said at the beginning, a Macora is a very local name. So that's, I think it connects us to, to this place for probably, you know, as far as we can think of.
[00:33:16] And I mean, the St. Macora was back in the Roman empire, right? So it was one of the last, uh, I don't know now the words in English, but Vescovo. Ah, of bishops. Yeah. Of the Roman empire. So it was one of the, you know, last like places of the Roman empire. So our story starts in 1922. So it's 101 years ago, which is when we moved to the house where we currently live. Oh, okay.
[00:33:44] And we started as many wineries year round as a self-sustainment farm. You know, uh, we had three cows, the horse in common with the neighbor, a few vineyards and some, you know, some land to grow corn eventually or whatever we grew. Um, so our story is linked to wine since 1922. Okay.
[00:34:09] And the family works into wine since 1922. Uh, but it has been my grandfather together with my father and uncle who actually, um, you know, just put it themselves completely into winemaking. Okay. We, we started making wine and bottling wine very early in the, yeah, in the late seventies, basically, which is, you know, that's, which is pretty good.
[00:34:38] Um, as many wineries, we had some tap wine and some bottled wine. It was very normal back in the days. And, um, it was basically my grandfather, uh, who we have to give the merit to believe in my father and my uncle, because, you know, uh, sometimes we take for granted that it's just normal that you support your child's dream and their, you know, um, essence or, uh, what they feel.
[00:35:07] But my father and my uncle, among the many activities that they, they were doing at the mixed farm, the one that they loved the most was the winemaking. Okay. And, you know, taking care of the vineyards. It wasn't really what, you know, got them out of bed. Gotcha. They didn't like, you know, milking cows. Kind of like you. Yeah, exactly. In a sense. Yeah. Yeah. It makes all sense. Now I never thought about this. Uh-huh. Thank you for this little hint. Maybe it's genetic. Maybe it's genetic.
[00:35:36] There must be some wine in our DNA or blood. Must be. And so it was him who believed in their dreams, basically, and their projects and them who were able to convince him. And also that, you know, they just look at each other. It's like, why do we keep on growing corn where the land we have is just simply better for winemaking? Okay. You know, or, you know, whatever they were growing. We're talking about four actors at the very beginning.
[00:36:05] So really like small. Small. Yeah. Um, and then that's how they started. And year after year, we get, you know, to the milestone you said. Actually, though, since we are going in this, in a shrimp way, in this timeline. Okay. So backwards. So yeah, we're walking backwards. We're walking backwards like shrimps do. While we were building our new website, we were going through, you know, some maps. I wanted to know more about our story and so on and so forth.
[00:36:33] And we actually found these maps in Udine that, um, they were old katasto maps. So maps, you know, like proper state, blah, blah, blah maps where, you know, they needed to be drawn properly because then you would pay taxes based on it and so on and so forth. Yeah. And there is a house where we live today. There are maps of 1811. There was exactly our same house. Wow.
[00:37:00] And on those maps, they would simply draw either, um, they would, they would not write, you know, here we have crop of corn because every year it would change, but they will draw, uh, lines where you had vineyards. Okay. Or where you have olive trees and the house where we are, they draw vineyards around it. So there were vineyards there since 1811. Uh-huh. This is one cool thing.
[00:37:26] The other cool thing is that, and they would write the name of the family who was, you know, taking care of or owning it or so on and so forth or living there. Um, so this one cool thing, you know, that there people would make wine sinks basically forever. And that the house where we are today really belongs to wine sinks 1811. And then there is another map from 1811, uh, just a few kilometers away in the area of, uh, Olays, which is really nearby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:37:55] Three kilometers away where there is a house again with olive trees and, uh, rows of vineyards. Uh-huh. And it's written on it, Ermacora. Uh-huh. So. So the name has always been there. Yeah. It has always been there and always been linked to winemaking. Okay. Yeah. Very interesting. So we're talking about two principal places here. We're talking about the heels of Butrio. Okay. And Iplis.
[00:38:21] And what I was really struck by was when we walked out of the back of the winery in Iplis, it was like this, this like paradise back there that I didn't know existed, you know, because I've driven through Iplis a million times because to get here where we are right now at the tasting academy from Udine where I live, I always drive and I always see the sign Ermacora turn right. And I know. You never turn right. And I never turn right. So I, I, I already begged you and your father for forgiveness that this was my first time
[00:38:51] visiting you, um, in all the years that I've been here, but it was absolutely stunning. And then you told me that you have two very different situations in Iplis and Butrio. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah. It's actually, you know, super cool. And we, um, we knew they were different, but we didn't know until, you know, all the terrific work, uh, the Collier and Talley is doing about, you know, mapping vineyards and,
[00:39:17] uh, getting data about microclimates and so on and so forth and soil, uh, that actually what we felt it could be that actually it is, and it's supported by numbers is that the area of, uh, the Butrio Hills, okay. As we named them. So Monsklapade, all that area, it's the hottest, the more sunny and, um, yeah, warmest.
[00:39:43] And there is always a little breeze basically compared to all the hilly areas of Friuli. So it's considered to be the hottest part of Friuli, you know, especially when you talk about the hills. Right. Of course. One of the reasons why it's so famous for red for red, for red Spignolo or for very big bodied whites. Yeah, exactly. And it, and it's not a fact that we, you know, it's not because we need to, uh, portare acqua al nostro mulino. Right. You know, that we say that reds there are good.
[00:40:12] It's just a fact because many of the wineries that are around us, like, uh, you know, Miani, Meroi, Petrucco, Ronchi di Manzano. They are known for making great red wines and it cannot be by just pure chance that they happen to be all there. It must be because the crops are just better for reds. Yeah. You know, uh, so we have this extreme great for red wines and for big bodied whites, uh,
[00:40:39] warm area, the warmest area in the entire Friuli, uh, hilly Friuli, uh, part. And then in Iplis, you know, uh, the old color and talli area is like a J shape. Exactly. And, uh, there is a big difference north of Cividale and south of Cividale in terms of microclimate or macroclimate actually. Okay. Because the micro it's, it's a bit different in all the different yields, but at the macro
[00:41:07] level, north of Cividale is one particular kind of climate. Um, and then south of Cividale, there is another particular kind of climate. So south of Cividale, Iplis is one of the, uh, fresher and colder areas. Cooler areas, you know? Uh, and so we have these two extremes. So the hottest area and the coolest area south of Cividale. Okay.
[00:41:34] And, and it's great because for us it's, it's just fantastic to work with so many, uh, different things, you know, uh, we, we happen to have the two extremes within the same winery. Okay. So we can blend, we can vinify by parcel as we do, uh, because we also work only with our own grapes. So it's just a consequence. And, you know, to have these, uh, these two things in, in just one winery is, is great. Yeah.
[00:42:02] Uh, you have the two extremes and, uh, we have vineyards of the same variety in both. Okay. Uh, so we have to, you know, harvest in different times and, you know, it's, it's really. Well, I'm sure that, that also helps with sort of the organization of the work. Exactly. At least it's not all at once. Exactly. So you have, you know, your early Friulano that you're harvesting in Butrio because it's warmer and sunnier. And then you have a little bit of time before the Friulano is ready in Iplis. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:42:29] So that's, that's kind of an advantage or it is in the organization. Yeah. And also it's one of those advantages that is not just, um, you know, at an operative level, as you said, that maybe it helps us to, to not be just all of a sudden bombed by stuff to do. Tons and tons. Tons and stuff to do. But it's also, uh, in terms of quality for our wines, it's fantastic because, you know, you somehow, it's like when in finance, you differentiate your portfolio. Right. Right.
[00:42:59] So, you know, you try to lower your risk by having some stuff that it's very risky and some stuff that it's very safe. Right. Um, what happens in our situation is that if you have very dry, uh, vintages, uh, then you still have the vineyards from Iplis. Okay. That ensure that you have a reasonable crop. If you have, uh, some cooler vintages, then you have the crops from, uh, Butrio, uh,
[00:43:28] that are very, you know, are still good crops. And ripe. And ripe and everything. Yeah. And so this helps us. We remain true to the vintage because obviously by working with our own grapes, our wines, like you will feel the vintage in our wines because we cannot, you know, uh, just mix other stuff. Exactly. You know, to make it fresher or so on and so forth.
[00:43:51] So you feel the vintage, but somehow at least you, uh, decrease the chances that you have a very bad vintage. Oh yeah, exactly. Okay. You're hedging your bets. Yeah. You're hedging your bets. Yeah. And I mean, we're drinking the Friulano now and there's nothing here that says, I mean, we have Ermacora Friulano. It doesn't say Ermacora Friulano, Butrio or Friulano Iplis. So you don't differentiate between the due places.
[00:44:18] So how do you, I mean, how do you decide which, cause you said you've unified parcel by parcel. Exactly. So, and then you make a selection of which, which batches go together for Ermacora. Yeah. So what we do is that, um, all our vineyards, they start, uh, the same path. Okay.
[00:44:39] So they're all, uh, supposed to be, uh, vineyards that will make it to our best wine. So they're not, uh, predestinati or stuff like that. Okay. So you don't have like second rate. Yeah. Second rate vineyards. They're all, you know, pruned by hand with our, you know, trusty people. Wow. Trustworthy people. 70 hectares. Yeah. They're all pruned by hand. Yeah, exactly. And they're all guillo.
[00:45:08] Uh, so, you know, there is not, there is not a vineyard that is just made for one line of wine. So they're all, you know, we like to give the same chances to, to, to everyone. We're very democratic. Right. Yeah. You gave a good example of that when we were talking in the wineries, like if you have several children. Yeah, exactly. You just want to give them their best education to all of them. Right. Send them all to university. Send them all either to university or if a kid likes soccer, you don't just push him to university because, uh, you want to, but you send him to the best soccer school.
[00:45:38] So we like to give them what we think, uh, it's best for them. Right. So they can express their full potential. Right. So we don't have a standard recipe for all our 70 hectares. There are different recipes according to the different vineyards. And you're looking sort of to, to maximize the quality there. Exactly. You're not sort of saying, okay, well over here, we're going to make a lot more production. We're going to, don't worry too much about the quality there because that's going to go in, you know, linear B. Yeah.
[00:46:05] No, you're, you're, you're pushing all of these to the maximum and then you make the selection wine by wine. Exactly. Not vineyard by vineyard. Yeah, exactly. So in March when we, we define which will be our free line, for example, we have about 15 different kinds of free line that we, you know, that we, we blend. Wow. Um, yeah, job to sort of go through all of it.
[00:46:31] It's, it's one of the most exciting times after harvest, which is the time for a winemaker for sure. Uh, so if we don't count the harvest, it's, it's really the, the, the time of blending. It's, you know, uh, you work so much to get all that colors, you know, all the shades, and now it's time to make the painting and make it great. That's great. Great analogy. Yeah. You, you, you travel around the world to find that perfect shade of okra and you bring the
[00:46:59] pigments back to your place and, you know, you try to, uh, understand what's best for that vineyard and so on and so forth. And then now you have all these shades in front of you and then you have to make the best painting ever. Exactly. Yeah. So we are drinking Friulano. You also brought us a Pignolo. Yeah. Tell us about the different wines that you make. So you make Friulano. Yeah. And you make a few, which is typical for Friuli. Which is typical. Yeah. At the beginning. So fun fact.
[00:47:30] At the beginning, I was a bit ashamed to name, uh, and list them out. Okay. You know, all of them. Well, you don't need to do that if you don't want to. No, no, no. I was, no, no. At the beginning, you know, back in the, in the first months of, you know, uh, working with the family because like, okay, but if you name so many, what are you really doing? You know, what, what are you really good at? But then, uh, it's not true. It's actually one of the cool things. And it's part of the history of this region because all the, most of the winery, I think
[00:47:59] 99% of them started as mixed farms, right? And every, uh, family in Friuli, uh, in their garden had a few lines of vineyards or, you know, um, add a plot with some vineyards and they would plan what they liked the most to make wine for themselves because it was, it was actually like considered food in Friuli. Yes, exactly.
[00:48:23] So for example, you like, you know, you're back in the forties or fifties and you like Sauvignon. So the wine that you make for your family should be Sauvignon and you plant Sauvignon. Okay. I like, uh, Refosco and I plant Refosco. Okay. And then all of a sudden, all the wineries, uh, somehow expand themselves by acquisition of the nearby vineyards. Okay. Which were planted of different things. Ah.
[00:48:49] So all of a sudden they find themselves with 15 different, you know, types of wines. I never thought of that that way. Yeah. Okay. And, and so like you, you end up having so many different like vineyards. So you have two choices. You either mix them all. Okay. So you make a Bianco and a Rosso. Okay. Or you are in a region where you have Mario Schiopetto. Okay.
[00:49:12] Where he leads the style of Friuli and, you know, it's, he's heroes and, and, you know, uh, you know, the, the, the person he, he wanted, you know, the winemakers he liked the most. And also the style was the Austro-Hungarian style. So pure wines, pure wines, single variety wines. Exactly. So the winery started making single variety wines. Gotcha.
[00:49:38] That's why even the smallest winery in Friuli has 10 different wines. Okay. So, uh, while at the beginning I was feeling ashamed, I'm like, oh, Nicola, you're so stupid. It's actually why we're here. And it's part of our story and why it makes us so unique, you know? Perfect. And yeah, so, um, we have, uh, different wines, Friulano, Ribolla Gialla and Malvasia. Then we have Pinot Grigio, Pinot Bianco, Sauvignon Blanc.
[00:50:06] Uh, then we also have Piccoli, which, you know, it's, uh, the, one of the noble passitos of Italy. Exactly. And, and this is all for the, for the whites. Then for reds, we have Refosco and Schiopettino as locals. Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon. And then we have Pignolo. Okay. And everything that you do is all mono varietals. Yeah. We only have one blend. You have one blend. Exactly.
[00:50:35] We have one blend. They're all mono varietals, like a hundred percent, same variety, the mono varietals. So not 85%. I was going to say, do you cheat a little bit? No, no, no. A hundred percent. A hundred percent is a hundred percent. A hundred percent is a hundred percent. Mano sul fuoco. Mano sul fuoco. Okay. And, um, we, we have just one blend where we start from mono varietals. So it's a, it's a cuvée. Okay.
[00:51:01] Um, we put in Reserva our best Merlot, best Cabernet Sauvignon and best Refosco dal Pedun Color Rosso. Okay. We let it age for, uh, 36 months in French oak. And then after 36 months, we taste these oaks and we select the best ones and we blend them together. So it's the best oaks of the best reds we have. Wow. So it's a, it's a two levels of selection. So you have to make it two times to be a Rioul.
[00:51:31] Yeah. That's the name of our wine. Rioul. Rioul. Yeah. And what does that mean? So Rioul, it's, uh, in our local language is, uh, how you would name a water stream. Ah, okay. Okay. A tiny water stream. Um, so. Like a little brook. Ruscello. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, and what happened is that we probably in the Makara, we don't have lots of, uh, creativity when it comes to naming.
[00:51:59] So, uh, when we started making this wine, our best Merlot, which is the main part of our Rioul. Okay. Was the vineyard that faced this water stream. So it's the Merlot, the Rioul Merlot, the Merlot in the Rioul. The Merlot. And then it became the Rioul wine. Gotcha. Fun fact and funny story is that actually, if you look at the, um, if you look at the maps, that water stream is actually named Rioul. No. So it's a stream, it's a water stream named Water Stream. Wow.
[00:52:28] So, I mean, did you know that it was called that before you called it that? Or did you just like. We just, it just happened. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And so on the map, it just called Rioul. It's called Rioul. Wow. So it's confirmed the name you already gave it. Exactly. Yeah. It was just as it should have been. Exactly. And, uh, well, today, um, that's not necessarily our best Merlot. Okay. So, but the name remained, you know. Gotcha. Yeah. Cool.
[00:52:57] And tell me a little bit about Pignolo because you're a big fan of Pignolo and I have to say, um, full disclosure. Pignolo, World Pignolo Day. Ben Little was nice enough to open a magnum that he had gotten from you guys as a gift of the 2003 Pignolo, which I think was the first vintage. 13. 13. 13. Sorry. Not three. 13. Sorry. 2013.
[00:53:26] And this whole idea of like Pignolo raro and these, these Pignolos that need 10 years. Yeah. Uh, so what, yeah. So what, is Pignolo something that's always been part of the DNA of a Macra or? Oh yeah. Obviously with, with Monsclapade, that's important, right? Yeah. But also in the DNA of her Macra has always been there. My father really planted, uh, few, few rows of vineyards literally. Uh. Is there a Pignolo in Ipplis? Yes. Oh, okay. Yes. Okay.
[00:53:54] So it just, it just liked it. Okay. And he said like, okay, no, I want, you know, also it was traveling to Borgogna with, with Girolamo, he knew Walter Filipputi by heart. So I guess he also, uh, you know, wanted to be happed their quality of Pignolo. You know, they were making fun, terrific Pignolos. It's like, I, I, you know, they're good friends of mine. I want to, you know, uh, be with them in a sense, you know? So if there was like Pignolo boys, your dad would be one of them.
[00:54:24] Yeah. I like to think about that. And Walter Piliputi and, and Girolamo. Yeah, they are. Those were like the guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, so he, yeah, he really, he just liked it. So he started planting it. So it's part of our DNA ever since, uh, because of the things we said earlier. So our vineyards in, uh, in Ipplis are 1992. So they were, those were the first years, you know? Gotcha. And so, yeah, actually it's also another cool thing is that we have two vineyards
[00:54:54] of Pignolo in the two different microclimates within the same winery, which is also interesting because usually, well, for listeners who, who, who don't know, but there are today just above 60, uh, wineries who make Pignolo. But combined, they make just above 70,000 bottles. So really like, yeah, usually, usually like wineries have really one little plot of Pignolo. But for these, uh, you know, reasons that we talk about, we, we happen to have two parts
[00:55:23] of Pignolo in the two different microclimates. So that's also a pretty cool thing to work with. And, um, yeah. And so it was part of our DNA for sure. We, you know, if we have this emotional attachment to Pignolo for sure. And we like it a lot. We think it really speaks the language of our region a lot. That's good.
[00:55:49] Uh, it's also definitely has a wow effect because it's the red you would not expect in a region mostly famous for white wines. Exactly. So, you know, like it happens sometimes that they open bottles of Pignolo, not just ours, but in general at tastings, you know, where you have the most famous, you know, Barolos or Cante Classico or, you know, the, the big reds, the Brunellos. And then they're like, okay, yeah, this is not definitely one of them, but must be made
[00:56:17] there, you know, must be something else, must be some weird technique or so on and so forth. And then boom, it's from Friuli. It's from Friuli. Mic drop. No, exactly. Mic drop. Yeah. Yeah. So actually, yeah. Pignolo, Pignolo for us is, yeah, it's, it's love. Right. It's love. Yeah. You can tell. It's just good. I want to, so let's go back a little bit.
[00:56:41] I want to take two steps back about you personally, because you said your real passion is outside and in the vineyard. And then while we were taking a little drive around Fantino Dar, you were describing some really, really interesting things that you were doing in the vineyard, especially as far as like, you know, your, your grasses and all that sort of stuff. So tell me, yeah.
[00:57:04] Tell me a little bit about that and maybe like why or how you became so in love with that type of work. Cause you said if you could do anything, it would be working outside. Right. Yeah. So I tried to run away every time I can to, to run outside. To run outside. So tell us a little bit about this passion for working in the vineyard and what you're doing out there. Yeah. So it makes sense again, the fact that we have the vineyards.
[00:57:31] If we didn't have the vineyards, then we would not be talking about this. You can't do all of these experiments and things like that. In, in the last years, we were trying, you know, we are just experiencing climate change like anyone else is doing. And one thing is that actually, even though, you know, it's not been raining for a long time, like every, everyone thinks that there is a Sitchita, there is no rain, but actually
[00:57:58] the amount of rain that you get in Friuli, it's a bit below average, but not by, you know, a big part. So a thing is to make sure that when you get the rain, you can keep it. So there are two ways of keeping water when it rains, you either build little lakes. Okay. And you. So like a reservoir. A reservoir. Runs off and gets collected. Exactly.
[00:58:23] And then you have to pump it up and, you know, like, uh, water your plants and so on and so forth. Or you make sure that the soil is ready to retain as much water as possible. Okay. Okay. It's like, uh, you know, if you have a sponge, you know, your kitchen sponge, you know, if it dries, uh, under, uh, weight, when you put water on it, it doesn't suck the water, right? The water goes away. Right. Right. Runs away. Right.
[00:58:52] But if the sponge is very spongy. Yes. It keeps the water. Okay. So it absorbs. Absorbs the water. Okay. The idea is this one behind all the experiments that we're doing. Okay. Uh, so we, it's like this compacting of the soil. Exactly. We try to decompact the soil. Exactly. Uh, but we don't want to work the soil. Uh, because, uh, we only work it in the very first years to break the superficial roots
[00:59:20] of the vineyards so that they go deep down. So they don't suffer eventually like water droughts and stuff like that. So we don't want to move the soil, uh, for, I mean, this would get very technical, but, uh, we don't want to move the soil. And what we try to do, uh, now we're doing some experiments based on some writings and
[00:59:43] findings and principles, uh, of also other wineries to not cut the grass or limit the times that we cut the grass. Okay. Uh, so that you allow the roots to develop and to keep this, um, soil more spongy. Okay. In a sense. And then also what we try to do. So is that before we, so if you don't cut the grass, does that become a problem for like managing the vines?
[01:00:13] Well, if you let it grow very tall and high, yes, you have to lay it down. Ah, so you don't cut it. You lay it down. Ah, you sort of press it down into the soil. You press it. You roll over it. Yeah. You disturb it in a sense, you know? Okay. Yeah. So it's not that, you know, we have a forest in our vineyards. Yes, of course. Because of course you have humidity and humidity brings a variety of problems. Exactly. So you, you lay it down continuously. Okay. Okay.
[01:00:42] By laying it down continuously at one point, you know, um, the, also the plant tends to develop better roots because it doesn't keep on putting energy into growing. Okay. If you think about it. Okay. Uh, and then in, in this way, you know, you have, um, a tarf literally like a carpet, uh, you know, it helps you to retain evaporation. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So less water evaporates. Less water evaporates.
[01:01:10] Also, uh, the temperature, it's a bit lower, you know? Okay. If you think about it, you, you can, in summer, when you go to the beach, when you go to Grado Lignano, you cannot walk slowly on the sand. Because it's very hot. But at your home garden, you can walk barefoot. Right. Right. Because grass doesn't absorb as much heat. It doesn't hold as much heat. Exactly. Uh-huh. Okay. So that you have a lower temperature of the soil. You have some shade because you lay it down.
[01:01:39] So underneath there is some shade. You have this, uh, what's called in Italiano, uh, Pachamatura. Okay. Pachamatura. Exactly. Okay. So you, you know, you, you put some literally green sunscreen on your, you know? All right. Yeah. Makes sense. In a sense, it's green sunscreen. It's nature sunscreen. And you also talked about like green manure. Exactly. So we do some more than green manure. We do, uh, this, we apply seeds.
[01:02:09] Okay. When we lay down the grass to bring biodiversity. So it's not a matter of manure. So if you, if you go to our vineyards, you don't have this Instagram perfect sovesho. Okay. It's all like spots here and there and so on and so forth. Some spots a little higher. Some spots are lower. Some spots are growing and some others are not. Uh, because what we do is that once a year in, and for consecutive years, uh, about five, we, uh, seed, uh, alternative lines of the vineyard. Okay.
[01:02:39] Okay. So we do one yes and one no and so on and so forth. And this, we do the same row for about five years. Uh-huh. This is like the, the idea. So that we bring local plants and species that maybe are not there anymore because obviously you use tractors and all those things, you know? So species that are more fragile, they tend to be, to, to, to die. Okay. Right. Yeah. So to bring more biodiversity.
[01:03:05] So our point is not to have this like very tall grass that we lay down and fertilize the soil, but it's more to have as much diversity as we can. And then, then again, we lay it down. And since we keep on laying it down and not cutting and, you know, like putting, uh, underneath the soil to fertilize as green manor practices would do, um, we, the flower that you get from this like green manor gets to its complete cycle.
[01:03:33] So when you lay it down, it has already seeds inside. So you don't need to reseed so much. So it sort of reproduces on its own. Exactly. So our idea is that we don't want to, you know, every year reseed, reseed, reseed, reseed continuously. But we want nature to just do it because he knows better. Right. Exactly. It knows better. And it grows where it's supposed to grow. Exactly. So we find it in some vineyards, our senape just grows better.
[01:04:00] And probably there will be a patch of more senape in an outer area. We have more vetcha. And so the plants that will grow are simply the best to grow there. So we're not, you know, imposing any other species. And this is all for the purpose of retaining more water, protecting the soil. So this part of Green Manor, no, it's more for biodiversity. So the more diversity you have, the more different, you know, bioma you have in terms
[01:04:29] of, uh, types of bacterias, types of, you know, insects and you name them. So you have a more diverse soil and environment. And that translates obviously in a more healthy place for plants to live and to thrive. Okay. Okay. So for sure that will turn into better, you know, grapes, more healthy grapes, less pest control treatments eventually, and so on and so forth. Okay.
[01:04:56] So no, the part of like Green Manoring in the way we do, it's more towards creating a better environment for the plant to grow. Okay. Okay. In a way that it's natural in a sense, you know, because we don't replant and we just, you know, in a sense, throw seeds there. And if they grow, they grow. Right. Okay. That's it. While the fact that we are doing pilot projects not to cut the grass in some parts, that's
[01:05:25] for, you know, water retention and again, soil management and all that part. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, you know, uh, Vignaida Doline, Somocchiuti. Yeah. Okay. Uh, has been working on this stuff for a very long time. So also the tool that we are using is based on, uh, also his studies and findings. Okay. Uh, so yeah, it's actually like one of his worries very good at.
[01:05:53] So soil management is definitely one of his skills. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we try to understand, uh, you know, how we can do better based on also some of these principles. Cool. So you are already sort of certified as, as sustainable. Yeah. Right. Is there another step? Are you going to go to biodynamic or organic? Or is that not something that you're thinking about right now? Um, to be honest, no. Okay. Yeah.
[01:06:22] Don't want to lie, you know, or say, yeah, we're going to do, and then never going to do it. You know, I mean, no one is going to question eventually what I say and come back like five years from now and say, oh, but we. But you said on Wayne's podcast that all of 37 people listen to. Exactly. So I prefer to be honest and say as of like what we are today. Right. And then, you know, tell you all the things I told you about, you know, green monitoring
[01:06:48] and biodiversity management and so on and so forth, instead of just like making politician fake promises. Gotcha. Uh, another thing, oh, sorry. How we monitor the fact, the, the biodiversity thing is that now we have also beehives. Ah, okay. And you can do analysis on the honey, uh, they, who you, you get from the, from the beehives. Okay.
[01:07:12] And they are as precise as telling you from which flowers they got the, you know, the, the netare from. From the honey. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Yeah. They go at a microscopic or whatever. They're not super expensive analysis and they give you a full list of the scientifical names of the plants you got the honey from. Right. Okay. So we're starting this year. We already had the beehives there for two years. Okay. Uh, and we're starting this year with this thing. Uh, and then we are.
[01:07:41] I want to see how long is the list. Okay. Of different species we get in our honey. Okay. Okay. So yeah. So my next question was like, what is the, the purpose of doing this analysis? Yeah. Because it helps us to understand how many different species flowers do we have in our vineyards. And we can do this only because we have a single block of 60 hectares, 40 of which are
[01:08:06] vineyards and 20 of which are, as I told you, forest, you know, forest and so on and so forth. So, uh, basically the numbers that you get there are really yours. It's not that it's, uh, some good neighbor who has so many different flowers, you know, the big flower guy, the big flower guy there. And, and so we want to monitor throughout the years if we get more species and to which amount, you know, so maybe we will see in a year from now.
[01:08:35] So we do one single honey eventually. Right. Um, of all the varietals or two honeys, like one of, uh, more of a spring one and one of more of a summer one. And then we cross the data basically. Okay. Um, and we want to see how long is this list? And if this list improves. Uh, okay. So if it becomes more diverse. So instead of having, I'm just gonna say a number like random, you know, instead of like
[01:09:01] 20 species that we get today in two years from now, we get 35, for example. And that's a good thing. That would be a good thing for us. Okay. Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. We've been going for an hour and 10 minutes. Oh, wow. Yeah. Time flies when you're having fun. Yeah. Exactly. So, um, I'm going to let you go. I mean, it's been a really interesting conversation. I want to thank you so much for spending time, not only here on the podcast, but showing me
[01:09:27] finally after so many years, um, the winery and what you're doing over there. Big revelations for me about Fantino Dar. And I knew about Monsclepade, but I didn't know about Fantino Dar and how you moved everything there. It was really nice to meet you, even though you said we have met before, but you didn't tell me who you were. We met at a tasting at Ronquitichala, right? Correct. So, and you were with, uh, Nicholas Ferlat. Yeah. Cool guy. Famous degustatore. And tractor driver. And tractor driver. Exactly.
[01:09:56] And I want to actually, I want to have, um, was it Daniele? Yes. From Simone di Brazzano have to have him on. Pretty cool guy. He is a cool guy. Yeah, definitely. So thank you so much. I mean, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to talk about? No, but I want to thank you because, uh, this is my first podcast ever. Okay. Um, and it has been quite of an experience. Uh. Well, you're very good at it. So it shouldn't be your last. Okay. I'll, I'll try that. Yeah.
[01:10:23] And then also it was my first podcast and in English. So, um, it has been an interesting exercise for me. So very stimulating. And also the, all the talks we had before this and now are. Yeah. Nice, intriguing. And a glass of wine or two doesn't hurt. No. Never. Thank you so much. Okay. And we'll see you next time. We'll see you sometime soon. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
[01:10:56] Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.