In this first part of my conversation with Daniele Lenuzza and his wife Tanika Paris, we talk about their vision for the winery and their wines. We also learn how they met and how they've created a unique tasting facility in the heart of Prepotto called the "Degusteria".
[00:00:19] Welcome to La Taverna Friuli Wines, the definitive podcast on wines from Friuli Venezia Giulia.
[00:00:27] I'm your host, Wayne Young.
[00:00:40] Hey there, Friuli Wine fans.
[00:00:43] Welcome back, my Anglo-phonic fans and friends to the first English podcast of the sixth season
[00:00:53] of La Taverna Friuli Wines.
[00:00:55] Got a lovely couple lined up for this episode.
[00:00:59] A couple that my good friend Ben Little has called future people.
[00:01:05] I love that.
[00:01:06] Ben really knows that these guys are part of the future of Friuli and Wine.
[00:01:12] Daniele Lenuzza from the Lenuzza Winery and his lovely wife Tanika Paris are our guests.
[00:01:20] This is the first part of a fairly long conversation that I had with them, but I really enjoyed talking
[00:01:26] to Daniele and Tanika.
[00:01:28] You can really see that they are trying to do something new and exciting in Pripolto, the
[00:01:36] little town of Pripolto famous for Skiopettino.
[00:01:39] So they're working with indigenous varieties.
[00:01:42] They're also working another winery in South Africa.
[00:01:47] They have two children.
[00:01:49] These are kids who like to work.
[00:01:51] I'll tell you, I can tell they spend their winters down in South Africa making wine down
[00:01:56] there and then they come back.
[00:01:58] I recorded this episode during the summer.
[00:02:01] So they were here getting ready for the fall 2024 harvest in Pripolto.
[00:02:07] And I'm sure very soon they will be heading back down to South Africa.
[00:02:12] Anyway, I don't want to keep up too much more of your time with my introduction.
[00:02:19] So here we go with part one of our conversation with Daniele Lenuzza and Tanika Paris from the Lenuzza Winery.
[00:02:40] So yeah, I'm really actually interested to hear about how you two met.
[00:02:48] How did these worlds collide?
[00:02:51] That's what I'm really interested in hearing.
[00:02:53] And that's what really did happen.
[00:02:54] They collided quite literally.
[00:02:57] Did you crash into each other somewhere?
[00:02:59] Like was it a car accident?
[00:03:00] No, no, no, no, no.
[00:03:01] It was much more fairytale than that.
[00:03:04] Okay.
[00:03:05] No, how it basically happened was I had just finished studying marketing in South Africa.
[00:03:13] I'm from South Africa.
[00:03:15] And marketing and Chinese language of which I finished the degree in China.
[00:03:22] Wow.
[00:03:23] Okay.
[00:03:23] And I flew back to see my parents and kind of prepare my luggage because I was offered a bursary to do my masters in England.
[00:03:31] Mm-hmm.
[00:03:32] Okay.
[00:03:32] And at the same time, this was in 2017, the beginning of the year.
[00:03:37] At the same time, Daniele was in South Africa.
[00:03:40] Okay.
[00:03:42] Doing a harvest experience with Hamilton Russell Vineyards.
[00:03:45] Okay.
[00:03:45] A beautiful, really, I would say famous winery in the Giamman-Lenardo region.
[00:03:51] Okay.
[00:03:52] In the what region?
[00:03:53] Himal-Lenardo.
[00:03:54] Yeah.
[00:03:54] Oh, okay.
[00:03:55] This is a new one for me.
[00:03:56] Yeah.
[00:03:56] Himal-Lenardo region is a beautiful region where they predominantly focus on Pinot Noir and Chardonnay.
[00:04:02] Okay.
[00:04:02] Yeah.
[00:04:04] And how it happened is that I was not supposed to go to this one wine fair and neither was he, but we ended up going and we quite literally walked into each other.
[00:04:15] Wow.
[00:04:15] Yeah.
[00:04:16] And that was it.
[00:04:19] Was it love at first sight?
[00:04:20] Yes.
[00:04:21] It was fireworks and the world stopped.
[00:04:24] Really?
[00:04:24] I love that.
[00:04:25] That's really good.
[00:04:27] So, and you are originally, Daniele, you're originally from Propoto.
[00:04:31] Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:32] Did you, were you in South Africa for like a stage or for something like that or what were you doing there?
[00:04:38] Yes, sir.
[00:04:38] After studying in Civitale for six years.
[00:04:41] Yeah.
[00:04:41] I went a little bit around some Australia and then 2017 I went down to South Africa without knowing one word of English and without knowing anything.
[00:04:50] Like just, just run away from Propoto for a bit.
[00:04:54] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:55] And after three months of South African I met Danica.
[00:05:00] So I have to pay the whole time until then.
[00:05:05] Aha.
[00:05:05] Yeah, we met at the very, the last three days of his trip.
[00:05:08] This was like fate testing you to see if you could withstand the three months there.
[00:05:16] So if you did, if you, that one month if you had sort of checked out and said I can't do this anymore, you would have never met.
[00:05:22] We would have never met.
[00:05:23] There you go.
[00:05:24] And then all the rest is history now.
[00:05:26] Yeah.
[00:05:27] And so, and so you guys met in 2018 you said or 17?
[00:05:31] 17.
[00:05:31] 2017.
[00:05:32] Fantastic.
[00:05:33] The same year we got married.
[00:05:35] Really?
[00:05:35] Yes.
[00:05:36] Bing, bang, boom.
[00:05:37] Bing, bang, boom.
[00:05:38] Fantastic.
[00:05:39] And so this year it'll be seven years, seven years.
[00:05:42] Congratulations guys.
[00:05:43] Two kids.
[00:05:44] Yeah, two kids.
[00:05:45] Yeah, two kids.
[00:05:45] One dog.
[00:05:47] Let's see.
[00:05:48] Seven years, two kids, one dog, two wineries.
[00:05:51] Two wineries.
[00:05:52] Two wineries.
[00:05:53] Because you guys are not just doing Propoto, you're also doing South Africa.
[00:05:56] Yeah.
[00:05:56] We couldn't just skip it.
[00:05:59] Like we had to go back.
[00:06:00] Now, was the South Africa project something that you were already involved in, Tanika?
[00:06:05] Is that something that's part of your family or how did that all come about?
[00:06:08] No, no, no, no.
[00:06:09] My, my family are completely wine enthusiasts.
[00:06:11] In fact, we come from a winemaking region, the Stellenbosch region.
[00:06:15] Okay.
[00:06:15] That one I've heard of.
[00:06:16] Yeah.
[00:06:16] So, I mean, wine is very predominant in the area.
[00:06:21] But this is something that actually came about after we had met because quite literally
[00:06:29] Africa steals your heart.
[00:06:31] That's what everybody tells me.
[00:06:33] Everyone says, and it's true.
[00:06:34] And as happy, as happy as we are to continue the winery here and to really build something
[00:06:40] unique, Daniele really felt this pull back to Africa.
[00:06:44] He had to go back to the region where he was producing Pinot Noir.
[00:06:48] And we wanted to do something ourselves and kind of close the circle of our story.
[00:06:54] Wow.
[00:06:55] Okay.
[00:06:55] It literally starts like an alibi to go back to South Africa every year.
[00:06:59] It's just an excuse.
[00:07:00] Now it's a full business.
[00:07:01] Now it's a full business.
[00:07:03] And so how big is the winery in South Africa?
[00:07:06] We currently produce this year about 15,000 bottles.
[00:07:09] Okay.
[00:07:09] So it's not small.
[00:07:10] No.
[00:07:11] Only Pinot Noir from the Himalernardo Valley and Chenin Blanc from the Strathland Bush,
[00:07:16] old bush vines.
[00:07:17] Okay.
[00:07:18] And that we focus only on two varietals, very high quality and that's it.
[00:07:23] They're completely on opposite sides of the coasts of Cape Town.
[00:07:27] Okay.
[00:07:28] So the Himalernardo is in the cool climate region, very, very close to the Atlantic and Indian Ocean.
[00:07:34] Okay.
[00:07:34] It's an amazing maritime influence.
[00:07:37] And on the other side we have the Swartland.
[00:07:39] So really hot and dry, average 40 degrees every day.
[00:07:42] And so what's planted in Swartland?
[00:07:44] The Pinot Noir.
[00:07:45] The Pinot Noir.
[00:07:45] Okay.
[00:07:46] So Pinot Noir in the hot region.
[00:07:47] No, in the cool climate.
[00:07:48] In the cool climate, sorry.
[00:07:49] Yes, in the cool climate and Chenin in the hot region.
[00:07:52] Okay.
[00:07:52] The great thing for me was to start a project with a white paper.
[00:07:58] Okay.
[00:07:58] Okay.
[00:07:59] And say, where I want to be, what we want to do, what's the target.
[00:08:03] Because in Friuli, we develop and we change everything for what my grandfather started
[00:08:10] and then my father was what we keep doing.
[00:08:13] So that was no white paper.
[00:08:15] It was a book.
[00:08:17] Okay.
[00:08:17] And we need to start reading and writing the next chapter.
[00:08:21] Oh, okay.
[00:08:22] So yeah, you were continuing the story there.
[00:08:24] And it's very hard.
[00:08:25] This was a whole new...
[00:08:25] Which is also amazing to do because there's a whole book, you know, that you have to continue,
[00:08:31] which is also amazing.
[00:08:32] Right.
[00:08:32] At the same time, they're completely two different concepts.
[00:08:36] You know?
[00:08:36] Right.
[00:08:36] Yeah.
[00:08:37] And what are some of the...
[00:08:39] I mean, obviously, we're talking geographically, but what are some of the big differences
[00:08:43] between working in Italy and working in South Africa?
[00:08:46] Culture.
[00:08:47] Culture, for example?
[00:08:50] That's the first thing that stands on me, actually.
[00:08:53] Yeah.
[00:08:53] Culture for wine, culture for work, culture for...
[00:08:57] For living, for work, for people.
[00:09:00] What's life like in South Africa?
[00:09:02] What's the...
[00:09:02] You know, because I always figured that Italy is fairly laid back.
[00:09:06] Is it even more laid back in South Africa?
[00:09:09] Times a hundred.
[00:09:10] Times a hundred.
[00:09:11] Always warm, always sunny.
[00:09:13] Yes.
[00:09:13] Let me give you this example.
[00:09:16] From Wednesday...
[00:09:17] Yeah.
[00:09:17] It's basically weekend.
[00:09:19] Really?
[00:09:19] Yes.
[00:09:20] That's the small Saturday already, Wednesday.
[00:09:22] So just Monday and Tuesday is the work week.
[00:09:24] Basically.
[00:09:25] You know what's the problem, Wayne?
[00:09:26] Because at the beginning, it was frustrating for me to work in that environment.
[00:09:30] But now after five, six years, I'm getting too used.
[00:09:34] And then it's a problem for me when I come back to Friuli.
[00:09:37] Oh, okay.
[00:09:37] That you need to push, you know.
[00:09:39] And that's going to be a problem.
[00:09:40] I have to actually work five days.
[00:09:41] There's a big work ethic in this area.
[00:09:44] Right.
[00:09:44] Very, very, very strong work ethic.
[00:09:46] Yeah.
[00:09:47] Friulani.
[00:09:48] Exactly.
[00:09:49] Strong, strong.
[00:09:50] Continuously working.
[00:09:51] Right.
[00:09:52] What were some of the big things for you, Ternika, to get used to coming to Italy,
[00:09:57] coming to Friuli, culturally or work-wise or climate-wise?
[00:10:05] Yeah.
[00:10:05] The climate is...
[00:10:06] Definitely the winter is not the best.
[00:10:08] No, the winter...
[00:10:08] Partfully.
[00:10:09] But you're down in South Africa during the winter, aren't you?
[00:10:11] Only for three of the months.
[00:10:12] Oh, okay.
[00:10:12] But let's not lie.
[00:10:13] Here the winter starts like already in October and November.
[00:10:16] More or less, yeah.
[00:10:17] So...
[00:10:18] We're more looking for good springs.
[00:10:20] After a summer in winter in South Africa, we come back in March and we're looking for
[00:10:26] Friuli spring.
[00:10:27] In the last couple of years...
[00:10:29] It's been terrible.
[00:10:30] Yes.
[00:10:30] It's been like cold and rainy.
[00:10:32] Yes.
[00:10:33] Wow.
[00:10:33] No, I have to say, everyone always advised me and they said, you know, it's maybe not
[00:10:44] going to be super friendly everywhere and this and that.
[00:10:48] But I haven't had that experience.
[00:10:50] I really haven't.
[00:10:51] The thing that definitely made a massive difference was the language and entering into the world
[00:10:56] of wine.
[00:10:57] If you couldn't kind of communicate and explain your standpoint on things in the Italian language,
[00:11:04] you were just a bit misconceived.
[00:11:06] Aha.
[00:11:06] So that was definitely a big learning curve.
[00:11:09] And in fact, I decided from here no further, I will learn the language.
[00:11:15] Okay.
[00:11:15] How's that going?
[00:11:16] No, it's great.
[00:11:17] In six months, I picked it up.
[00:11:19] Yeah?
[00:11:20] You're one of those.
[00:11:20] Yeah.
[00:11:21] Okay.
[00:11:22] Chinese was easier, but anyway.
[00:11:24] Chinese was easier than Italian?
[00:11:27] Yeah.
[00:11:27] Come on.
[00:11:27] For me, yes.
[00:11:28] Yeah, it was way more direct.
[00:11:30] You know, in Italian you have a lot of adjectives and you need to explain and really talk in
[00:11:35] a different way.
[00:11:36] Anyway.
[00:11:36] Interesting.
[00:11:37] Yeah.
[00:11:38] So that was a big thing.
[00:11:39] I wanted to communicate in the correct way in the wine world.
[00:11:43] Also to communicate what we were doing, you know, not to be misconceived or misunderstood.
[00:11:47] So that was probably the biggest change and cultural things.
[00:11:52] Okay.
[00:11:53] Yeah.
[00:11:53] And for you, Daniele, what about, you know, this whole idea of bringing sort of maybe a different
[00:12:01] point of view that you acquired in a place like South Africa, bringing that back to Propoto?
[00:12:09] I think we did everything from our heart.
[00:12:14] So we didn't have enough time to focus and strategize things too much, I would say.
[00:12:22] Okay.
[00:12:22] But after now six, seven years, we can say we are quite in a good level.
[00:12:29] Our new winery is finished.
[00:12:30] Our new tasting here is finished.
[00:12:32] So now we really know what we want to do.
[00:12:35] Okay.
[00:12:35] And I think we are taking a very international touch to a place like Friuli, like Propoto,
[00:12:42] that really, really, really need it.
[00:12:45] It needs it.
[00:12:45] It definitely needs it.
[00:12:46] And we have an international point of view of things.
[00:12:49] We have an international network.
[00:12:52] So it's, it helped a lot.
[00:12:55] And I think it's the way that we need to be, we need to go, you know.
[00:13:00] And yeah, we're very happy.
[00:13:02] But at the same time, he's actually very right when he said that, you know, being a really
[00:13:07] young couple and getting together and pushing with your heart, not your head first, and you
[00:13:13] don't overthink too much.
[00:13:15] Okay.
[00:13:15] And you come from a very genuine point of view.
[00:13:19] And I think people really perceive that positively.
[00:13:23] And we never have ever put this, this kind of modern international thinking above the
[00:13:30] tradition.
[00:13:30] Okay.
[00:13:31] In the Friuli winery.
[00:13:32] We, we actually really believe that without the tradition, we would not be able to do what
[00:13:36] we are currently doing.
[00:13:38] So we actually put this first and then we bring a modern concept towards it.
[00:13:43] So let's, let me get a little bit of background on, on the Lanuzza winery in Propolto.
[00:13:48] Give me a little bit of background where that all started.
[00:13:50] You said, you know, this is a book that started with your grandfather.
[00:13:54] Yeah.
[00:13:54] Okay.
[00:13:55] You know, like Friuli, but especially our area right to the border, it'd been between
[00:14:01] like culture change and first world war, second world war.
[00:14:05] So making wine for business start in the small areas like Propolto only after second world
[00:14:11] war.
[00:14:11] So 1950s, that's where my grandfather divided from his brother and start his own small business.
[00:14:19] And definitely it was very small winery, one and a half hectares.
[00:14:24] Wow.
[00:14:24] Okay.
[00:14:24] And then my father, my father took it over.
[00:14:27] So my father is, my father was not involved in the winery because the winery was in on
[00:14:35] my mom's side.
[00:14:36] Okay.
[00:14:37] Okay.
[00:14:37] And she was the only daughter.
[00:14:40] Okay.
[00:14:41] And as a farmer, my grandfather definitely told her just go study, just go do an office
[00:14:48] work, like farming.
[00:14:49] Get out of this world.
[00:14:50] Get out of this world.
[00:14:52] Get out of this world.
[00:14:53] And then long story short, my father took the opportunity to challenge himself.
[00:14:58] So in the eighties, he took over the wineries anywhere my grandfather would have sold it already.
[00:15:04] And he did quite a pretty job to keep doing it and elevating and buy more land, build a
[00:15:12] new cellar and whatever.
[00:15:14] And then I took over, my first harvest was actually in 2011.
[00:15:19] I was still at school.
[00:15:20] Okay.
[00:15:21] But I would say in 2013, I finished school.
[00:15:24] I did a lot of experience around Italy, in Friuli, South Italy, but I were already like
[00:15:30] trying to push the winery and try to sell the product because the problem was not making
[00:15:35] the product, but selling the product.
[00:15:37] It always is.
[00:15:38] And then 2016, I took over completely.
[00:15:42] And now Vigna Lenuzza works about eight hectares of vineyards.
[00:15:46] Mm-hmm.
[00:15:47] All in Propoto?
[00:15:48] All in Propoto mostly.
[00:15:50] Okay.
[00:15:50] Yeah.
[00:15:50] We have some collaborations with other one farm.
[00:15:53] Okay.
[00:15:54] All organic.
[00:15:55] Since 2014, we all organic.
[00:15:57] Wow.
[00:15:57] And we can count 18 countries where we export our wine.
[00:16:02] So export is 70% of our business.
[00:16:04] Of course.
[00:16:05] Okay.
[00:16:05] Yeah.
[00:16:06] So we grew quite a bit in quantities, but mostly in quality and focus on products.
[00:16:14] Only indigenous varietals.
[00:16:15] Okay.
[00:16:16] Elevated as much as we can.
[00:16:18] So also the new cellar is the best place where we can really focus on the method, how we make
[00:16:25] the wine.
[00:16:26] How has this new cellar sort of influenced the process of making wine?
[00:16:33] Definitely.
[00:16:34] Have you put in some sort of special systems or whatever to change how you actually make the wine?
[00:16:42] Okay.
[00:16:44] Okay.
[00:16:44] Any family in anything?
[00:16:45] Okay.
[00:16:46] So we just talk about our products.
[00:16:48] We have our classic wines that we're drinking today.
[00:16:52] It's just a nice interpretation of Friuli wines.
[00:16:55] Very vertical, good acidity, aromas.
[00:16:58] And that's staying still and a little bit of wood, 15% wood fermented.
[00:17:03] Okay.
[00:17:04] So we're drinking the Ribola Gialla.
[00:17:05] Yes.
[00:17:06] So there's a little bit of wood here as well.
[00:17:07] Yes.
[00:17:07] Thank you, Tanif.
[00:17:08] You're welcome.
[00:17:08] About 15%.
[00:17:09] And these are wines that are ready for Easter.
[00:17:12] So they don't have a long...
[00:17:13] Ready for Easter.
[00:17:14] Yeah.
[00:17:14] Okay.
[00:17:15] And this one is...
[00:17:15] So that's sort of typical cycle of...
[00:17:17] Yes.
[00:17:17] You know.
[00:17:17] Yes.
[00:17:18] Yes.
[00:17:19] Yes.
[00:17:23] And then something that we start...
[00:17:25] Cheers, guys.
[00:17:26] Thank you for having us here.
[00:17:27] Thanks for coming.
[00:17:28] So we start this new project called Indigenously.
[00:17:34] This starts in 2018.
[00:17:36] Okay.
[00:17:37] When I was a little bit bored about the classic wines,
[00:17:40] and I tried to elevate it and elevate it and elevate it,
[00:17:43] but the market was not ready, or we were not ready,
[00:17:47] to elevate the classic to a different level.
[00:17:49] Mm-hmm.
[00:17:50] So I said to myself, okay, let's keep the classic classic
[00:17:54] because it works.
[00:17:55] Right.
[00:17:56] And let's do something different.
[00:17:58] So Indigenously, it's not a name, it's an adjective.
[00:18:02] Yeah.
[00:18:03] How we do the wine.
[00:18:05] So we start from the terroir.
[00:18:07] We select our best vineyards on top of the hills, full of clay,
[00:18:13] and only old vines.
[00:18:15] Okay.
[00:18:16] Like on Indigenously, the younger vine is like six years old.
[00:18:18] On that, we do a new process, I would say.
[00:18:23] And it's something between old style, new style.
[00:18:28] So it's a skin contact.
[00:18:30] Okay.
[00:18:31] For 10, 15 days.
[00:18:32] Whites?
[00:18:33] Whites.
[00:18:34] Okay.
[00:18:34] Only indigenous.
[00:18:35] Only indigenous varietals.
[00:18:36] Okay.
[00:18:36] Only indigenous yeasts.
[00:18:38] Okay.
[00:18:40] We ferment in 10, 15 days, but not for extraction.
[00:18:44] It's more an infusion.
[00:18:45] Okay.
[00:18:46] So cold temperatures, manual punch down.
[00:18:50] So not too much extraction.
[00:18:51] It's like a, you have to think about a tea bag, putting in a hot water and just slowly
[00:18:56] release the...
[00:18:57] So not like a full blown orange wine.
[00:19:01] Absolutely not.
[00:19:01] We don't want to miss the Friuli elegance, the Friuli verticality.
[00:19:06] You know, we just want to concentrate a bit and elevate a little bit of the product.
[00:19:10] Okay.
[00:19:11] And after this, we decide because we study, I try in South Africa, a little bit in Australia,
[00:19:17] what's the best way to hate this wine.
[00:19:21] Okay.
[00:19:22] Everyone would have put it in wood.
[00:19:23] So we create the first cementaya in Friuli, I would say.
[00:19:28] All right.
[00:19:29] So a part of a cellar only with concrete eggs.
[00:19:32] The concrete eggs are not vitrified.
[00:19:34] Okay.
[00:19:35] We have concrete eggs of 700 liters and 22 hectoliters.
[00:19:39] Okay.
[00:19:39] So different shapes where the, this indiscently wine stay for one year.
[00:19:45] Okay.
[00:19:45] So the wine is breathing through the concrete as a wood, but without giving the touch of the
[00:19:52] wood.
[00:19:53] And you keep the-
[00:19:54] So not the flavor of the wood.
[00:19:55] Absolutely.
[00:19:55] So you keep the typicity, the identity of Friuli wines 100%.
[00:20:01] Okay.
[00:20:01] And you said these are concrete eggs?
[00:20:03] Concrete eggs.
[00:20:03] Oh, okay.
[00:20:04] Yes.
[00:20:04] Okay.
[00:20:05] Okay.
[00:20:05] So not square.
[00:20:06] Not square.
[00:20:07] Interesting.
[00:20:07] Not square and not vitrified.
[00:20:09] So I think we, like we thought as a project and when we do projects, we do it 100%.
[00:20:15] Okay.
[00:20:16] Don't just try on, we try for a couple of years, but then we dedicate a cellar, we dedicate
[00:20:20] the vineyards, we dedicate this new brand, the indigenously brand, different labels.
[00:20:26] Okay.
[00:20:26] Different labels as well.
[00:20:27] Yes.
[00:20:27] That's our crew, our top selection.
[00:20:31] After one year in concrete, the wines stay with another extra here on the bottle.
[00:20:35] So it comes out only after two years.
[00:20:39] After two years.
[00:20:40] And are these both blends?
[00:20:41] These two wines?
[00:20:42] No, no, no.
[00:20:42] It's three white wines.
[00:20:44] Ah, so-
[00:20:44] Ribolla, Malvasia, and Filano.
[00:20:46] So always mono varietals.
[00:20:47] Mono varietals.
[00:20:48] We don't believe in blends.
[00:20:49] You don't believe in blends.
[00:20:51] We'll talk about this.
[00:20:52] Go on.
[00:20:52] Yeah.
[00:20:53] And of course the Schiopettino.
[00:20:55] Of course.
[00:20:55] And that's another, but it's the first main goal, main target, main topic for Vigna Le
[00:21:02] is Schiopettino di Prepotto.
[00:21:03] Okay.
[00:21:04] And is it, it's, it's Schiopettino di Prepotto?
[00:21:09] It's, that's the designation or is it just Schiopettino?
[00:21:11] Because I thought Schiopettino di Prepotto had to have some wood as well.
[00:21:15] Yeah, yeah, of course.
[00:21:16] Of course.
[00:21:16] So you can produce Schiopettino in various parts of Friuli.
[00:21:21] Mm-hmm.
[00:21:23] You'll see it's only in Friuli Colli Orientali.
[00:21:25] Right.
[00:21:26] But Prepotto is the best appellation.
[00:21:28] So in 2008, the region, um, decide that Prepotto is really the place of Schiopettino.
[00:21:36] So it give us the Grand Cru.
[00:21:37] Okay.
[00:21:37] The Sotodzana.
[00:21:38] Right.
[00:21:39] You know, I like the Grand Cru.
[00:21:41] Sotodzana sounds like a, a bottom area.
[00:21:44] Exactly.
[00:21:45] It's the best area of growing Schiopettino in Friuli.
[00:21:49] Of course.
[00:21:49] Okay.
[00:21:50] Because why this?
[00:21:52] Because we are right on the border with Slovenia.
[00:21:54] So Prepotto, it's like a, um, epi high island of Friuli, I would say.
[00:22:00] Okay.
[00:22:00] So we have this ponca soil, this very full clays and stone soil characteristic of the old Collio
[00:22:07] and parts of Collio Orientali.
[00:22:09] Mm-hmm.
[00:22:09] But we are very north east.
[00:22:12] So we ride at the bottom of a valley, a valley called Yudrio Valley.
[00:22:16] Okay.
[00:22:17] And this creates a very special microclimate.
[00:22:20] So lower temperatures, a little bit higher elevation, but with the same energy of the
[00:22:27] soil.
[00:22:27] Okay.
[00:22:28] So that's why the wines that you find in Prepotto are very vertical, very aromatic.
[00:22:34] They, you can never find wine for 14, 15 degrees alcohol, you know, and that's, and
[00:22:39] it's very positive because people want to drink less alcohol.
[00:22:42] Mm-hmm .
[00:22:43] They want to drink fresher wines and the experience that they have, the aroma, the complexity is
[00:22:49] on the same level.
[00:22:51] Okay.
[00:22:51] So, and that's why Scupatino comes out very unique in Prepotto.
[00:22:57] Yeah.
[00:22:57] It's, it's definitely the place to make Scupatino.
[00:23:01] Yes.
[00:23:01] And correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:23:03] It's because of the, that, that sort of less warm situation that you have in that, that
[00:23:09] little valley there.
[00:23:10] Yeah.
[00:23:11] And that helps kind of-
[00:23:12] Special microclimate.
[00:23:13] Right.
[00:23:13] That helps kind of those, those spicy elements, those black pepper elements come out.
[00:23:18] Sure.
[00:23:18] Because they're so expressive.
[00:23:20] Right.
[00:23:20] Exactly.
[00:23:20] Whereas if you put it in a place like Butrio, which is much warmer, you tend to lose that,
[00:23:26] that dimension of Scupatino.
[00:23:29] So, yeah.
[00:23:30] And is, is Scupatino has obviously always been important to the Lanuzzo winery?
[00:23:36] Yeah.
[00:23:36] Always been, of course.
[00:23:38] Yeah.
[00:23:38] But now, actually, all the new vineyards that we are renovating or planting is on Scupatino.
[00:23:44] Really?
[00:23:45] So, we almost have three acres of Scupatino.
[00:23:47] So, it's a very big percentage.
[00:23:49] We really believe in Scupatino.
[00:23:51] We have Scupatino in 18 markets in the world.
[00:23:53] So, I think, I think South Africa, if I'm not wrong, South Africa working with Pinot Noir
[00:23:59] was a big part of Daniele's personal exploration with Scupatino di Propotto.
[00:24:06] Okay.
[00:24:07] The way he looks at the varietal, the way he works with the varietal, that experience
[00:24:11] really shaped the expression that he wants to, that he wants to give or that we want
[00:24:17] to give for our Scupatino di Propotto.
[00:24:20] Right.
[00:24:20] I've always heard that sort of comparison between Scupatino and Pinot Noir.
[00:24:25] The Scupatino is the Pinot Noir of Friuli.
[00:24:30] And I've even heard, you know, people like the Rapuzzi's who I work very closely with say,
[00:24:37] why do we need Pinot Noir in Friuli when we have Scupatino?
[00:24:41] So, can we talk a little bit about how those, especially your, your experience working with
[00:24:46] both, what is, what do they have in common and what makes them very different?
[00:24:51] Friuli got Scupatino and definitely better of Pinot Noir because it's unique.
[00:24:57] So you can't find a wine with the same elegance of Pinot Noir, the same roughiness, the same
[00:25:03] feminine touch, but with this spicy and pepperness.
[00:25:07] That's the characteristic of the Scupatino.
[00:25:09] So I come from, from a winery where my dad tried to, to follow a little bit, the 2000, 2005,
[00:25:19] where it was a lot of wood.
[00:25:21] And if the wine is not 14 degrees alcohol and it's deep red color, you don't go anywhere.
[00:25:29] So it was even in some stages, trying some of the grapes, like go on the very extreme extraction.
[00:25:37] And I always never, never agree with this.
[00:25:40] Okay.
[00:25:41] And then after having experience on Pinot Noir, I'm a very big fan of Burgundy.
[00:25:47] So that's, that's the wine that I drink.
[00:25:49] So I drink all white wine or I drink Pinot Noir.
[00:25:52] Okay.
[00:25:52] I don't drink, I don't like heavy red wines.
[00:25:54] So no Napa Valley Cabernet for you?
[00:25:57] No, no, it's not my style.
[00:25:59] Okay.
[00:26:00] Like woman's just blonde and neat.
[00:26:03] So, you know, everyone got a target.
[00:26:05] Yeah.
[00:26:06] Everybody's, everybody's got their, their, I don't know.
[00:26:09] If I can choose, then I can do whatever.
[00:26:10] Your type, we would call it in English, right?
[00:26:12] Yes.
[00:26:12] Okay.
[00:26:14] So, so I took the Schubertino in a different level.
[00:26:19] So we, we started getting only planting Schubertino in the best vineyards of the farm, of the family.
[00:26:27] Okay.
[00:26:28] We don't have Schubertinos in flat areas, downtown, like in, in humid places because it's not going to work.
[00:26:35] Okay.
[00:26:36] So Schubertino need to have the terroir mostly.
[00:26:39] And then we, we put a different concept like Burgundian Pinot Noir.
[00:26:46] So where we do only manual pans down.
[00:26:50] Okay.
[00:26:51] A little bit, all pans to keep this Bujolet type of thing.
[00:26:55] Okay.
[00:26:55] Like 20%.
[00:26:56] And low temperature fermentation.
[00:26:59] Okay.
[00:26:59] And this, we, we put in the winery in 2020, a new concept of Tini Tronco Conici.
[00:27:09] Okay.
[00:27:10] But in concrete.
[00:27:11] Whoa.
[00:27:12] Okay.
[00:27:12] Interesting.
[00:27:13] So also this not vitrified.
[00:27:15] Okay.
[00:27:15] So the, the wine can breathe.
[00:27:17] They are open at the top.
[00:27:19] So we climb on top and we just do manual punch now.
[00:27:22] It looks like, it looks like a gondola.
[00:27:26] Like, yeah.
[00:27:27] Like you're, you're going for a ride.
[00:27:29] Yeah.
[00:27:29] Sometimes he sings.
[00:27:30] And as you say, this Schubertino in the Propota by, by rule, need to have wood.
[00:27:36] And I'm totally agree that it needs wood, but we can't overpower with the wood.
[00:27:41] Anyways, we will lose all the pepper, the spiciness and whatever.
[00:27:47] So we ferment in concrete.
[00:27:49] We put in wood for one year, manolatic in wood.
[00:27:53] Okay.
[00:27:53] We can fix the colors and create the body.
[00:27:56] Wood are only French hook.
[00:27:59] Okay.
[00:28:00] And about 15, 20% new hook.
[00:28:03] After one year, we put the wine back in concrete for another year.
[00:28:08] Interesting.
[00:28:08] Interesting.
[00:28:09] So it's concrete, wood, concrete.
[00:28:11] A lot of work.
[00:28:12] And then bottom.
[00:28:12] It's a very long, long.
[00:28:14] So it's a two years process.
[00:28:15] Yeah.
[00:28:16] But this for me.
[00:28:18] And this is for the Schubertino indigenously?
[00:28:20] Oh, for both.
[00:28:21] For both.
[00:28:21] For both.
[00:28:21] We don't have a second lines of Schubertino and nothing.
[00:28:25] Our Schubertino is Schubertino di Propoto and Schubertino di Propoto indigenously.
[00:28:29] Okay.
[00:28:29] It's actually the same wine, the same story, the same vinification.
[00:28:34] So we try to vinify this four or five blocks that we have separately.
[00:28:39] And then before blending from the wood to the concrete, I select the best barrels.
[00:28:46] Okay.
[00:28:46] And it's always for that crew, crew go on top of Propoto, like 180 meters on the sea level,
[00:28:53] full of ponka.
[00:28:55] Okay.
[00:28:56] It's always that.
[00:28:57] And we select about eight, 10 barrels.
[00:29:00] We put it apart and you stay another x-ray in wood in this case, and then a little bit
[00:29:05] of concrete and then in barrels.
[00:29:07] So with the classic Schubertino, we're out now with the 2021 vintage.
[00:29:12] Right.
[00:29:13] With the Schubertino indigenously, we're out with the 2019.
[00:29:16] 2019.
[00:29:17] Yes.
[00:29:17] So it's just a longer aging process.
[00:29:19] Pre-pandemic.
[00:29:20] And this dynamic of the wine, this very light color, this friction, this soft tonance,
[00:29:27] but with the spiciness and the elegance, it's unique.
[00:29:31] Right.
[00:29:31] One of the complaints that I've had about Schubertino di Propoto from time to time, not all
[00:29:37] ways, but I would find that the time in wood could be a little bit heavy handed from time
[00:29:43] to time.
[00:29:43] And you miss, you sort of eliminate the elegance and the freshness and the spiciness that I
[00:29:50] feel is so important to Schubertino.
[00:29:52] So I love this idea of going cement, wood, cement.
[00:29:56] So, but I'm just, it sounds like so much work to do the wine that way.
[00:30:01] Obviously there's gotta be.
[00:30:03] Nothing come out with little work.
[00:30:04] And also I think, I think it's, it's less about the work and more about giving respect
[00:30:09] to the varietal.
[00:30:10] Right.
[00:30:11] Without giving respect to the varietal, you're just doing a disjustice.
[00:30:15] So it's what the varietal needs, we think.
[00:30:18] And this is our interpretation, our expression in order to let it literally shine, literally
[00:30:25] express what it needs to.
[00:30:26] Yeah.
[00:30:26] And you, and you guys also worked very hard on creating the cellar.
[00:30:30] I mean, I remember, I remember driving by and seeing this very big hole in the ground
[00:30:35] and things being lowered in, I guess those were those concrete eggs and then re-closing
[00:30:40] everything over.
[00:30:42] No, that's how, that was a, that's our underground cellar.
[00:30:44] Yeah.
[00:30:45] So you have an underground cellar and an above ground cellar.
[00:30:47] And then the degustaria on the top.
[00:30:49] Yeah.
[00:30:49] So then, as I say before, it was, was very hard project to think and imagine how to grow
[00:30:56] the business, how to grow the winery from 10, 15,000 bottles that my father was, he was
[00:31:04] bottling to maybe a target in a couple of years of 90,000, 95,000.
[00:31:10] And then, because we are in a very small village per potter.
[00:31:14] Yeah.
[00:31:14] And we are right in the center.
[00:31:16] Very great location because it's right in the center.
[00:31:18] Right in the center.
[00:31:19] Yep.
[00:31:19] But the space was very tight.
[00:31:21] Okay.
[00:31:22] So we renovate completely top to bottom to top everything.
[00:31:27] And we needed to, to expand in a different way.
[00:31:32] So we, we make a hole.
[00:31:35] We, we dig out about 300 tracts of soil.
[00:31:38] And we built down an underground cell of about 200 meters squares.
[00:31:42] Mm-hmm.
[00:31:43] All underground, no temperature control where we have the, our bottle cellar.
[00:31:48] Okay.
[00:31:48] And the storage for the bottles.
[00:31:50] Okay.
[00:31:51] And on top of that, in our parking lot, we build this very, I would say, modern, unique
[00:32:00] testing area.
[00:32:01] That's called degusteria.
[00:32:03] Right.
[00:32:03] Okay.
[00:32:04] And this is also like a new concept of, you know, turismo or wine traveling and stuff
[00:32:10] like that.
[00:32:11] But now in a small village of per potter, we are fully organized and fully ready to, to
[00:32:18] work in the best way.
[00:32:20] Right.
[00:32:20] Yeah.
[00:32:21] I think if we kind of wrote it down, there were three main topics or main strategies
[00:32:27] that, that we wanted to, to, to kind of move forward with.
[00:32:32] Right.
[00:32:32] First was quality.
[00:32:33] And that's always our first thing on our list.
[00:32:36] We, we always try to focus on that first and then the rest all actually follow.
[00:32:41] So it was quality.
[00:32:42] Then we wanted to increase production.
[00:32:44] Okay.
[00:32:44] Okay.
[00:32:45] This was after we took over the winery.
[00:32:48] And then thirdly, communication.
[00:32:50] How are we going to communicate all of these things that we're doing for the quality, for
[00:32:54] the territory to others?
[00:32:56] Okay.
[00:32:56] Um, I definitely think that, um, when, when his father was, was, was running the winery,
[00:33:03] um, there was very little communication as to what they were doing, maybe because it
[00:33:06] was not required or it was not seen as necessary.
[00:33:10] Um, that we all know in today's day and age, how important it is to, to talk about what you're
[00:33:16] doing and why you're doing it.
[00:33:17] Okay.
[00:33:18] So these were the three main things.
[00:33:20] So obviously the, the, the, the gustaria is, is, is part of that communication.
[00:33:25] Absolutely.
[00:33:26] So the people come to you, they have a specific place where they sit and enjoy the wines taste
[00:33:30] and who is it always you guys there sort of taking care of your visitors or do you have
[00:33:36] someone who, who helps you out with that or?
[00:33:39] So realistically it can't always be us.
[00:33:43] We, we try our best to be there.
[00:33:45] Um, most of the time because we, apart from the fact that we enjoy public relations.
[00:33:51] Okay.
[00:33:51] That's important.
[00:33:52] Yeah.
[00:33:52] We really enjoy it and we enjoy, um, connecting with people and connecting, um, people to wine
[00:33:58] wine and talking about this beautiful territory that we are so lucky to produce wine in.
[00:34:05] We realistically can't because of all the production requirements that, that we follow, but as well
[00:34:12] as all the traveling that we do throughout the year to visit our importer clients.
[00:34:16] Okay.
[00:34:17] So, so we choose, um, more of a personal strategy with regards to, to export.
[00:34:23] Right.
[00:34:24] Um, we don't do a lot of fairs besides the obvious ones like Vinny Tilley and such.
[00:34:28] Um, but rather we go to our export clients and we stay for a couple of days and we meet
[00:34:33] all their clients and do personal tastings with them to create a really face to face, um,
[00:34:39] moment.
[00:34:40] So we do a lot of traveling.
[00:34:41] Okay.
[00:34:42] Um, but it's, we, we've seen that there's, there's a great success in this, um, as well
[00:34:47] to communicate what we're doing.
[00:34:49] But, uh, but, but we are, we are in the degustaria a lot of the time.
[00:34:53] Okay.
[00:34:54] Yeah.
[00:34:54] This project just, we, we did the grand opening one week ago.
[00:34:58] Literally a week ago.
[00:34:59] Yeah.
[00:35:00] So we, we will be there.
[00:35:02] We are there all the time because we work in the cellar, we working here, whatever,
[00:35:06] but we have a help.
[00:35:07] Of course.
[00:35:08] And a young girl that really liked our project.
[00:35:11] And we try to, to, to involve that 360 degrees.
[00:35:16] Mm-hmm.
[00:35:17] So just to, to help us with the, with the background work, whatever.
[00:35:22] Also to be, to be, to be always open.
[00:35:23] Okay.
[00:35:24] This is, this is how I mean.
[00:35:25] Because this is, this is something that we really hate when you have to go and check
[00:35:29] if Monday or Tuesday you're open from eight to nine, 15, and whatever.
[00:35:34] It just doesn't sit with us.
[00:35:35] Eight to nine, 15.
[00:35:35] Eight to nine, 15.
[00:35:35] Our clients can't, our clients can't think about.
[00:35:38] Yeah.
[00:35:38] You have to know that from 11 o'clock to 7 p.m. we open.
[00:35:43] Wow.
[00:35:43] Yeah.
[00:35:44] It's a big day.
[00:35:45] Especially in a season, especially in a season, in a season day.
[00:35:47] Right, right, right, right.
[00:35:48] Like a lot of tourists, a lot of Germans, a lot of Austrians, a lot of North European
[00:35:52] people come down.
[00:35:53] So that, that's our target.
[00:35:56] And we hope that we're going to be able to do that.
[00:36:00] Anyways, it's better that we close already, you know, like, because that was one of our
[00:36:05] first topic that people come to Prepoto and they don't have a place to go.
[00:36:11] Right.
[00:36:11] To stay, a place to stay.
[00:36:13] If they are in the wrong, in the wrong time or in the wrong day, you know.
[00:36:17] And, and that's actually something that goes more further than just tasting our wines.
[00:36:24] In our degusteria, you have opportunity to have the Schiopettino di Prepoto experience.
[00:36:30] Mm-hmm.
[00:36:31] Where we present in a tasting five different Schiopettino di Prepoto of other producers.
[00:36:37] Really?
[00:36:38] And every month we change producers.
[00:36:40] Oh, that's amazing.
[00:36:42] We don't want to be-
[00:36:43] It's almost unheard of that you, no, I'm being serious that you actually let people
[00:36:48] taste, let people taste other producers' wines in your winery.
[00:36:55] That's, that's shocking in the best way.
[00:36:57] Yeah.
[00:36:58] The villas that we need to sell the villas, the territory.
[00:37:01] We need to sell the Schiopettino and then everything's going to happen.
[00:37:05] It's going to be a success.
[00:37:06] You know, no one ever won anything without the team behind them.
[00:37:11] Right.
[00:37:11] Even if they are, even if it's a solo sport, they come with a massive team.
[00:37:15] Of course, coaches and trainers and everybody.
[00:37:17] And it's the same concept here.
[00:37:19] We cannot talk about the territory in isolation of everyone else that exists in the territory.
[00:37:24] And we don't want to, we want to be inclusive.
[00:37:27] We have that mentality.
[00:37:29] We are that kind of couple.
[00:37:31] We are those kind of people.
[00:37:32] And so for us, it's, it's absolute pleasure.
[00:37:35] Right.
[00:37:36] You know, for us to just do, to just build a cellar, to just build a tasting room where
[00:37:42] it's mostly closed and just, you need to phone for appointments, whatever, was not our target.
[00:37:47] Okay.
[00:37:48] We want to do something that seemed a bit obvious.
[00:37:51] People talk about, people come, people enjoy.
[00:37:53] It's going to be interaction.
[00:37:55] It's going to be fun.
[00:37:57] It's going to be fun.
[00:37:57] Like old generation, uh, create such an intimidation from young generation into wine.
[00:38:03] Right.
[00:38:04] That people are running away from wine.
[00:38:07] It's true.
[00:38:07] And we know that the numbers are talking about like people don't drink wine anymore.
[00:38:11] Right.
[00:38:11] They drink spirits.
[00:38:12] They drink not alcoholic.
[00:38:13] Like, because wine, they create too much as a castle of complication.
[00:38:19] If you're not sommelier, if you're not this and that.
[00:38:21] And if you don't know the right tasting notes, you can't enjoy it.
[00:38:24] Right.
[00:38:24] And if you can't say the right thing, then you shouldn't be drinking it.
[00:38:28] Wine is for everyone.
[00:38:29] Yeah.
[00:38:29] Good wine is for everyone.
[00:38:31] Right.
[00:38:32] Bad wine shouldn't exist.
[00:38:34] Right.
[00:38:34] Okay.
[00:38:34] But that's what we're trying to do.
[00:38:37] So who are some of the, the, the wineries who you're, you're working with right now that
[00:38:41] you've just opened?
[00:38:42] Who are some of them?
[00:38:43] Yeah.
[00:38:44] So we, we just try to put down a calendar and really turn everyone around.
[00:38:49] Wow.
[00:38:49] You know, especially people that follow the association of Scipitino del Propoto.
[00:38:56] That's an association that in the last 20 years did a great job.
[00:39:00] Okay.
[00:39:01] It's a lot of work that still needs to be done.
[00:39:06] Okay.
[00:39:06] And we're going to try to do our best on also on that scenario.
[00:39:10] But to include everyone in Propoto to have a place, but not for the wineries, for the
[00:39:17] client.
[00:39:18] Right.
[00:39:19] For the tourists that come to Propoto, it wants to know, wants to learn.
[00:39:23] That's going to be a place where it learns.
[00:39:26] Right.
[00:39:27] It's like a learning center.
[00:39:28] Not so, not just tasting.
[00:39:29] Yeah.
[00:39:30] I'm, that's super impressive to me that you guys are including other wineries in your tasting
[00:39:35] room.
[00:39:35] And I think that's, that's the key to success is that you're not sort of saying here we
[00:39:41] are as the nudes that were saying, here we are as Scipitino del Propoto.
[00:39:45] Right.
[00:39:45] Super intelligent, really, really smart.
[00:39:47] Thank you.
[00:39:48] And I think that's a lot of compliments on, on that, that whole idea of, of being able
[00:39:51] to do that.
[00:39:52] Um, and having the vision to be able to do it.
[00:39:54] I think that whole idea, and I've read something recently about this as well, is that yes, younger
[00:40:01] people don't drink as much wine, but they're starting to see that people who are starting
[00:40:06] to sort of surpass like 30, 32 years old are going back to wine because they realize it's
[00:40:13] not something you drink to get drunk.
[00:40:16] It's less of a, it's less, I mean, people drink, you know, craft beer and, and, and, and spirits
[00:40:22] because they, they want to, you know, have fun on a Friday or Saturday night.
[00:40:25] Whereas once you get to a certain age, you start realizing that the whole purpose of wine
[00:40:29] isn't necessarily the buzz, although the buzz is kind of nice.
[00:40:33] Uh, but it's, it, you start to understand that it's there, there's something more to it.
[00:40:39] You know, there's something there, there's a, there's a depth to it that may have been intimidating
[00:40:43] when you were a little bit younger, but now you're starting to appreciate the fact that
[00:40:46] you really enjoy sitting down with a glass of wine and, and just enjoying it usually with
[00:40:51] friends.
[00:40:52] Right.
[00:40:52] So, and, and, and that's, that's also the, the, the style behind the degusteria.
[00:40:57] Okay.
[00:40:57] And we want to bring the elegance back to wine.
[00:41:00] It's not just an alcoholic beverage that we are, that we are producing.
[00:41:04] It's actually extremely elegant.
[00:41:06] It's noble.
[00:41:08] It's a product that needs to be appreciated.
[00:41:10] It's a product that has tradition behind culture.
[00:41:13] And you need to, you need to give knowledge about these things.
[00:41:17] It's not just have a glass of wine because you, you, you want to party.
[00:41:21] Right.
[00:41:21] You know, we want to bring the elegance back and that's why we've created this, this
[00:41:25] kind of wine tasting style.
[00:41:26] So we have, um, specific wine pairings with each of the wine.
[00:41:30] Okay.
[00:41:31] To build knowledge on, to, to make the wine more expressive once you taste it, to create
[00:41:35] conversation and all these kinds of aspects.
[00:41:38] Interesting.
[00:41:39] So,
[00:41:53] I'm going to go ahead and see you next time.
[00:41:55] I'm going to go ahead and see you next time.
[00:41:55] Bye.
[00:41:56] Bye.
[00:41:58] Bye.